After update to 5.0 WHR is Trash!

Question

EDIT: 5.74 beta fixed my problem. Now my Fenix 6X Pro is great again. Thanks. 
 Guess what... After 5.0 firmware update my Fenix 6X Pro WHR is trash. It was working fine. Now, I not only have Allalin72 problem, but HR overall is a "random number generator" as someone wrote on this forum. 
 Video showing that problem 
 https://youtu.be/itScQILQYlo 
 
 The data: 
 FM: 5.00 /// GPS: 2.60 /// Wi-Fi: 2.60 /// WHR: 20.04.50 /// ANT: 4.30 /// Sensor Hub: 3.10 
 The data is compared to Apple Watch 4 paired with Garmin HRM Dual or with builtin AW WHR. 
 
 About 24/7 WHR widget: 
 It's inaccurate like hell! Not going above ~110 BPM. But that is not the worst thing... I've noticed that that during the day my HR is quite different on F6 and on AW. F6 is showing 90, AW 60. Quick check on my neck... Yeah... It's ~60. And this is repeating all day. 
 
 So today im wearing ALL DAY my HRM Dual paired with AW. When you pair a HR strap to AW, the WHR is off all day. Its taking all the data from HRM Dual and display it constantly (1 sec) on my watch face. What I'm seeing is little bit sad. 90% of the time it's different at least 10 BPM. Funny thing is for example - I see 90 BPM on F6, 74 AW - run downstairs and back - F6 60 BPM. AW 110 BPM :D. 
 
 So to sum up - not only it's not going above 110 BPM, it's inaccurate like hell. It's only good when I sleep. 
 EDIT: Half day - F6 and AW+HRM Dual. Not even close... :(

About Activity WHR: 
 It was great for me. Now I have differences of 60 BPM! Take a look at that nice example of 1k walk with a stop in a store. AW+HRM Dual is spot on (orange). Im mad like hell! 
 EDIT: changed it to view by duration, not km 
 
 Firmware flashed again, watch wiped 3 times... nothing works. This is the case with Walk, Run, Bike, Cardio... 
 Couple days ago I was showing Allalin72 how not all devices have hisbug. One update was enough to make my F6 worse than my mothers in law Mi Band 4. 
 
 BUT NOT ALWAYS 
 Today my Fenix was performing excellent on a walk with my little daughter.

There was a lag, but that's how all WHR work, so no problem here. F6 had two "hang times", but in recovered quite quick. 
 This is a walk in the city, so my pace is not consistent. Couple of times I intentionaly slowed down, to seatle my HR and speeded up. Beside that two times F6 WHR was great. At the end I've ran. F6 picked that right away. 
 So yeah... I'm certain if I would run with a stedy pace that HR graph would be nice and clean. Average pace from F6 and chest strap is the same - 130 bpm. So for me, thats EXELENT for na WHR. 
 Beside that (it was very cloudy): GPS: EXELENT (AW was wrong) Instant pace: EXELENT Distance: EXELENT Elevation: VERY GOOD

Garmin - Chris · Accepted Answer

We have reached out for details on the issue being reported so we can investigate further.

iLikePotatoes · Answer

Sensor is capable of amazing accuracy. I did workout with F6X WHR and H10 chest strap connected to phone. Reading on the F6X during workout was 1-3 BPM off compared to reading from chest strap (F6X dropout in the middle - my fault). 
 
 However, when not running activity profile - it's just throwing random numbers. If I am not completely motionless - HR is wrong. Actual ~60 F6X showing 85-90. This constantly repeats during the day, HR is just all over the place. It is screwing with average HR figure, stress figures: 
 
 Apparently I am constantly stressed if I am not moving... 
 And consequently also body battery figures and active minutes figures. 
 On Wednesday afternoon I was helping friend move, and you can see on the graph that watch detected movement, but HR is WAY LOW for moving boxes, furniture, fridge. 
 
 Watch will regularly spike to 90-100 BPM if I just go to grab a cup of water, but carrying freaking fridge - 97 BPM EZPZ. 
 Today I noticed that Move IQ is disabled in the watch (but enabled in the GConnect app). I enabled it in the watch, but next time i synced watch with the phone - it got disabled again (still enabled in the phone). So I enabled it in the watch, than disabled it in from the phone app, confirmed disabled in the watch, closed app, opened app and enabled it again. Confirmed in the watch that it is enabled, and so far it stayed enabled (did this after lunch, now is 22h it is still enabled). 
 This entire story about MoveIQ was because: 
 
 When I was walking today, for the period MoveIQ recognized as walking - HR was shown correct... You can see the movement as detected by the watch and you can also see corresponding elevated HR. But only for the short period detected as walking by MoveIQ. The rest is (mostly) random numbers... 
 I understand that some (most?) do not really care about all day HR, stress, body battery, active minutes (outside activity profiles)... But this is advertised feature I paid for, and I would like it to work. And at the moment - it is not. 
 There is no doubt that sensor is capable of amazing accuracy, it is just that the software is in some way screwing readings to the level where they turn into bunch of random numbers.

Maurycy · Answer

Same as now - 3.10. I was posting in Allalin72 thread that my F6 is working great and either his F6 is faulty or he has just the right mix of settings etc. to bring that bug. I've updated to 5.00 and I'm in the club. It was WORKING PERFECTLY on the same FW as Allalin72.

iLikePotatoes · Answer

Problem is that it is inconsistent. During activity monitoring I found it to be 2-3 (max 5 bpm) off at 150+bpm (which is AMAZING for OHR), and during all day monitoring it is anywhere from 5 to 20 bpm off. And the worst part is that this 5-20 bpm error seems completely random or based more around movement than actual HR variance. 
 If I'm just sitting (reading, watching TV, browsing internet) it will be correct - showing ~60bpm (give or take 2-3 bpm). If I just stand up and make 20 steps around my living room it will spike to 80-90 bpm while my actual HR went up to 70 maybe 75. I compared readings with both Polar H10 chest strap and actually measuring my HR on the neck - and it is wrong. 
 These variations during the day add up, and make all health stats provided by this watch completely useless. Heart rate graph? Wrong. Stress levels? Wrong. Body battery? Wrong. Active minutes? Wrong. Calories consumed during the day? Wrong. 
 Even for my use case watch is giving me wrong daily health stats (exercise 3-5 times a week, 8k steps daily, rarely go above 100-120 bpm outside exercise). 
 I can only imagine how it is for the people who do 16k steps or spend 8h a day with elevated HR. They probably have 500-600 cal eaten by the watch on top of active minutes, body battery, and heart graph being wrong... 
 At least they have low stress levels... since stress is not calculated if watch detects activity.

iLikePotatoes · Answer

bluefish said: Yes. I agree with you. But the watch should always behave the same. Related to the respective carrier. and equal conditions. 
 Seems like some people just want to push this thread in the wrong direction. Do not take the bait. 
 We have a lot of screenshots (and few videos) showing that sensor works just fine in activity and than craps itself outside of it. So it's clearly not the issue with skin tone, color, thickness, temperature, tattoos, circulation, body hair, band tightness... If it was - it would not be magically fixed by starting activity. You have same watch on a same hand in a same position with the same amount of tightness showing 2 completely different measurements. You do not make skin tone, color, thickness, temperature, tattoos, circulation, body hair problem go away by just pressing the button. 
 Regarding reliability of the wrist heart rate data - again all valid points but not in the context of this thread. Same as above, problems presented in this thread are - same watch, on the same hand, in the same position, with the same amount of tightness showing completely wrong figures. You do not magically fix the reliability of the optical WHR by just pressing the button three times to start the activity. 
 There is plenty info in this thread showing that problem we have - has nothing to do with skin tone, color, thickness, temperature, tattoos, circulation, body hair, band tightness, or inherent limitations of the OWHR. 
 So Allalin72, next time you see someone posting any of the above, just ignore. Do not reply, do not take the bait.

iLikePotatoes · Answer

Maurycy said: One update was enough to make my F6 worse than my mothers in law Mi Band 4. 
 
 I don't have MiBand 4 but I managed to find my old MiBand 2. 
 So let's compare. 
 
 Left to right: Garmin Fenix 6X Pro, MiBand 2, Amazfit Stratos (connected to Polar H10 chest strap). 
 Results:

After starting activity on Garmin:

eezytiger · Answer

I have been wearing my 6XPSo on the left wrist and my 5X+ on the right for a couple of days to compare data, and syncing each watch to separate accounts. 
 Here are heart rate graphs between around 08:00 to 12:45 today from each watch. Between about 9:45 and 10:15 I went for a walk and for a couple of minutes almost at the end of the walk I started jogging with quick, short steps. The display on both watches was just the watch face, no widgets and no activity recording, just passive, but HR was displayed on both. The 5X+ rose to the occasion, showing a peak of 123 BPM, even though the display only updates every minute. My 6XPSo didn't register a thing, sticking around the low 80s for the reported HR. 
 The graphs show the complete failure of the 6XPSo to capture the increased effort in any way. Hopefully this might assist your troubleshooting efforts.

bluefish · Answer

iLikePotatoes said: This is clearly a software issue, since sensor has 0 issues when running activity profile 
 Clearly! The test at my thread was to describe this. And this was NOT a problem with intial FW for me. 
 The whole behavior then also affects other values ​​that are calculated via HR. Like calorie consumption over the day and intensity minutes.

bluefish · Answer

iLikePotatoes said: Problem is if sensor is CONSTANTLY using low power WHEN NOT running activity and is not checking results on high power - causing watch to record wrong values during day. 
 Yes. And if that&lsquo;s the case, all related data like calories burned over the day,active calories and intensity minutes are wrong. This means allday tracking become to get wrong values.

bluefish · Answer

Nice that this problem, which I reported to Garmin a long time ago, is slowly being recognized. As a user, of course, I cannot say how many devices are affected. Hopefully a problem now has high priority. I can only encourage everyone to help Garmin solve a problem that some people don't consider worthy of attention and told me i should contact Garmin instead of posting here, although I told them I had done it long ago. ... 
 Let me take you on a trip ..... 
 Only for those who are interested...let&lsquo;s take a journey into the past ... 
 3 month ago.... 
 forums.garmin.com/.../fenix-6x-sapphire---faulty-ohr-or-software-bug

Lubomir Saradin · Answer

I have same big problem. 
 Here is compare with HRM + Edge 520

My last correct activity from 24.11:

But after upgrade to 5.0.0 all my activities are:

I know that whr is only informative, but now this is totally out of range.

bluefish · Answer

bluefish · Answer

YES, welcome to the club! 
 iLikePotatoes said: But the watch will also display random HR during the day, it will completely ignore any elevated HR during day that is outside activity 
 
 I have had the exact same problem for months. With each FW over 3.10

bluefish · Answer

iLikePotatoes said: There is no doubt that sensor is capable of amazing accuracy, it is just that the software is in some way screwing readings to the level where they turn into bunch of random numbers. 
 I can confirm that! In my case, the problems with the optical sensor only started after the firmware update.

eezytiger · Answer

Tonight I tried a more extensive test, with a short run a few times round the block (~12;30 minutes jogging) and one circuit walking (~6:30 minutes) to cool down. I had 6X on my left wrist and 5X+ on my right wrist, both using wrist HR. I did not start an activity or widget. I was relying on Move IQ to identify increased activity or simply to keep track of HR. 
 I also wore my Polar H7 heart strap linked to my V800 and held lightly (should not have influenced wrist readings) in/around my left hand. This can be considered the benchmark for the test. To even things up I held my reading glasses in my right hand with a light grip, just in case. Before starting the V800 I walked maybe 100 meters just to level up the playing field for each watch before beginning the test/recording. 
 The V800 recorded 100 BPM at the start, 173 maximum after 12 minutes and 118 BPM on completion at 19 minutes. 
 The 5X+ recorded 101 BPM at the start, 184 maximum after 14 minutes and 125 BPM on completion at 19 minutes. 
 The 6X recorded 86 BPM at the start, 116 BPM maximum after 21 minutes (test had finished already). When the test had actually completed the 6X was still showing around 85 BPM. It had not increased once in 12 minutes of running and 7 minutes of walking. Basically there seems to have been a ~20 minute lag before the 6X noticed anything was happening, by which time the show was already over. 
 Having reviewed Move IQ interpretation, the 6X thought I was on an elliptical trainer for 13 minutes. No. I was running for 12:30 and then walking for 6:30. The start time is actually close, but the HR data does not reflect this at all. Move IQ for my 5X+ has identified 18 minutes of running, which is still wrong, but much, much closer to the truth. EDIT : Thinking back, the elevated HR reading from the 6X 2 minutes after stopping the V800 was probably me climbing the stairs at home and nothing to do with the 19 minutes of exercise. It's as if the watch actively refuses to acknowledge some types of raised activity, while others are acknowledged instantly. It is a puzzle. 5X+ HR graph and Move IQ data on the left, 6X on the right. BTW, I performed a Coherence breathing exercise on the 6X this afternoon. As there is no equivalent on the 5X+ I recorded the session as "Yoga".

eezytiger · Answer

What is happening is that you recorded an activity. There is no problem in that situation. 
 The problem is when you do not record an activity, but you are active nonetheless and the watch completely ignores your increased effort and heart rate. So if you run for the bus, for example, or spend 15 minutes sawing wood, the watch sees nothing of your effort, despite heart rate spiking and remaining high for a while.

bluefish · Answer

eezytiger said: The problem is when you do not record an activity, but you are active nonetheless and the watch completely ignores your increased effort and heart rate. 
 Thats it. Same for me. And this way the watch ignores my hr above ~ 110 
 and i am definitely not the only one, who have this problem. an example:: 
 
 i don&rsquo;t know how many devices (FWs/sensor hubs) out there, but this is a problem, that appears after FW update for me.

bluefish · Answer

iLikePotatoes said: Problem 1: 
 24/7 monitoring with low power, but sensor is stuck in low power outside activity. Daily readings outside activity prof. are wrong, but once activity is started sensor goes into high power mode and displays correct numbers. 
 Problem 2: 
 Sensor is permanently stuck in low power mode, giving wrong readings all the time... 
 If there is such an energy saving mode, Garmin only "turned it on" for me AFTER the firmware update. I have not seen such behavior for years. Neither my f3hr then the f5x. I often just look at the widget. And the f6x showed exactly the same behavior for me. i never had this problem of a delay. until the 1st update. All values ​​in the widget were current and correct. and were always the same when I switch to an activity profile. 
 And I think it's not just a short race after the bus. It is quite the case that hiking or cycling is not correctly recognized without an activity profile. other users have confirmed that to me. You can find only one example in one of my previous posts. 
 its also very important that the hr values are correct, to calculate intensity minutes and calories burned over the day. 
 I bought the Fenix ​​3HR at launch. Then I switched to the market launch of the Fenix ​​5x. I had several years to observe the behavior of the HF. I would like to receive an opinion from Garmin. If Garmin has rewritten the FW, you should report it. If Garmin has made a mistake, you should investigate and resolve it as soon as possible. A pure energy saving mode does not explain such behavior as the thread creator describes. and also not why you get a pulse of 130 when watching TV. Unless it was a horror movie 
 Which, however, I cannot understand either. Because both the thread creator and I notice this "magic limit" of ~ 110BPM. I've been around ~ mid September. Other users have also posted this behavior.

bluefish · Answer

Sorry. Unfortunately, that seems to be another misunderstanding. You say that you have understood my thread. If so, you should also acknowledge that it is important for all of us that the watch can also read higher values ​​through the sensor out of activity, to then calculate calorie consumption, intensity minutes and other values ​​correctly. 
 If the activity tracking 24/7 function is irrelevant for you, you may not care about reading out the 24/7. For everyone who wants to have an exact calorie consumption over the day and minutes of intensity calculated, the values are important. But in fact, the elevated HR isnt calculated, due to not recognized, these values are wrong. 
 That would also explain why you don't get enough minutes of intensity even though you move quickly.

bluefish · Answer

Unknown said: Have you considered that the calories burned displayed by the Garmin line, not just the fenix 6, are not in line with things like Smashrun, or Strava, or MyFitnessPal or Apple or anything else that tries to calculate calories burned? 
 i am aware how Garmin works there. i had a f3hr and f5x. They where fine all over the Years. 
 And i was happy with my new F6x out of the box for 3 weeks, just after uptdate from 3.10 up, every FW shows wrong value 
 It's inaccurate like hell! Not going above ~110 BPM. 
 Maurycy said: Guess what... After 5.0 firmware update my Fenix 6X Pro WHR is trash. It was working fine. Now, I not only have Allalin72 problem, but HR overall is a "random number generator" as someone wrote on this forum. 
 this shows, thats software related

iLikePotatoes · Answer

This is not problem with the widget. Even if the widget is displaying wrong info you should be able to see correct numbers in Garmin Connect app/website. But both widget and Connect app/site are displaying wrong figures - obviously problem with something else (sensor or firmware). Since (at least in my case) sensor is working perfectly fine if I am running activity from the watch - this is (again my case) 100% firmware issue and not issue with the sensor. 
 He does not have issue with low power because his watch is using high power mode occasionally (every 30 sec/ 1 min or whatever interval) to verify the readings and even out results between low/high readings. 
 Problem is if sensor is CONSTANTLY using low power WHEN NOT running activity and is not checking results on high power - causing watch to record wrong values during day.

Steffen · Answer

For me with 5.77 beta and sensor hub 4.2 the heartrate is still not accurate when there is no activity started. The heartrate reacts very slow and only sometimes goes over 100 bpm. 
 There is one bug when i was on an activity with a cheststrap and i stop the activity the heartrate WHR falls down to 70 bpm when my real heartrate is about 120 bpm. After that it never goes over 100 bpm. But when i was on an activity with WHR turned on and i stop the activity the WHR stays on top and the following minutes/hourd the heartrate seems to be accurate. 
 This has to be fixed!

After update to 5.0 WHR is Trash!

EDIT: 5.74 beta fixed my problem. Now my Fenix 6X Pro is great again. Thanks.

Video showing that problem

https://youtu.be/itScQILQYlo

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