Indoor Row Connecting to Concept2 FE-C as "Trainer"

The meters aren't lost but in the C2 ecosystem they are considered rest meters and rest time and show that way in the log book entry but don't list in the work meters value. The ANT+FE-C does continue to send the distance so meters on the Garmin side shouldn't be lost there but the power obviously makes it look like it isn't rest. Personally, I get around the rest interval frozen power values by using a variable interval workout and program all intervals with no rest by programing the work and rest as separate intervals, that will prevent the flat line power value you're seeing. Concept2 definitely views the workout metrics differently. I've not played with the new features too much but it seems like the core pieces could be there but some refinements need to be made and this still doesn't bridge the gap of one app to give all metrics. The best solution in my mind would be a BLE app that syncs entries to the C2 logbook, Garmin allows ConnectIQ apps to write core metrics and the watch can program the PM5 for workouts.

I was just pointing out that PM5 sent a "lap" alert after the rest at the end of the interval. And watch took it as a lap alert and added 500m. This is definitely some bug. In the end i have around 300m on PM5 and 1208m on watch, This is wrong. 

I disabled now the autolap on the watch and will try to do the same workout steps on PM5 to see if it will have some difference in recording. 

Hi Crispin_Ellisdon, you seem to be the perfect person to help me. Sounds like we are moving to measure VO2 Max on indoor row app via C2 connection. Do I read this correctly? I have a Fenix 6S and would be SO thrilled if this was the case! Thanks a ton for your help. 

any news on this Marbuel - if indoor row can do VO2 Max, I would just be SO thrilled!

KatRow said:

Sounds like we are moving to measure VO2 Max on indoor row app via C2 connection

If you read through the detail of my earlier posts, I would be surprised to see VO2 Max soon or at all (let alone some kind of equivalent to FTP or lactate threshold HR/pace). Firstly, the existing research on rowing VO2 Max people refer to (https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/training/calculators/vo2max-calculator), is linked to an individual’s best effort 2000m row, so that’s not something  a Garmin watch is likely to ‘auto detect’ based upon heart rate and pace/power during a routine rowing session (which is how Garmin watches calculate VO2 Max for running and cycling). So currently, for indoor rowing, it’s a manually calculated value (only you know if you’ve just rowed a best effort 2000m). Second, I simply don’t think it’s a big enough market for Garmin to pay for all of the additional research and development required to develop a way of auto detecting VO2 Max during normal row training of varying lengths. Theoretically it’s possible, but in reality I doubt we’ll see it on Garmin watches any time soon.

(That’s not to say, like others posting here, I would’t love to see VO2 Max and an FTP equivalent for indoor rowing, be delivered on Garmin watches; of course that would be fantastic)

I'm a bit more hopeful. Since it looks like Garmin and FirstBeat have contracts with some college rowing clubs, it means that they will have data for VO2 max measured by a lab during maximum effort rowing sessions. And with that they will have tons of HR/HRV/Power measurements from training session of the the same athletes. So they could find how to estimate VO2 max from standard row sessions. I would hope that the main development on the Firstbeat side was already done for running and cycling and now it is more about adapting the existing machine learning algorithms to rowing data. And for this you need data. Ground truth based on lab measurements and tons training sessions with power/HR/HRV measurements to "correlate" it. I think they could do it, first for the rowing clubs, maybe even as a paid service. I would think that coaches would benefit from having these data (without always using lab equipment) and some clubs might be even willing to pay for this. Will we get it for free to Fenix 6 .. I don't think so. We will get it in Fenix 8? Maybe ... or there could be paid app. If this would be less than ~$20, I would probably buy it just for fun. You know ... a full fledged rowing app for Gamin watch and some extra features on-line? Why not to pay extra for that? I would think that this could be a way for Garmin to make watch cheaper and get more money from "services". I hope they will not switch to this for all sports but you could certainly see how "subscription" based services could become a norm also for Gamin.

Crispin_Ellisdon said:

I simply don’t think it’s a big enough market for Garmin to pay for all of the additional research and development required to develop a way of auto detecting VO2 Max during normal row training of varying lengths.

Well, Garmin obviously thinks the market is big enough for them to put in the effort needed to implement rowers as native power meters, so I don't buy into this reasoning.

Also, Garmin is serious enough about the analysis part of training that they have acquired FirstBeat all together, and this missing research you keep mentioning should be right down their alley.

I agree with Marbuel, I think at this point it's all about gathering enough data to adapt the algorithms from cycling to rowing, and once they have that I don't think we're far from seeing rowing as an activity that will contribute to the full "First Beat Experience" on Garmin watches.

EDIT: Just to be clear - I'm talking about rowing as in using an indoor rower like C2 with power and HR data, not rowing on water. I agree that would a whole different story. (unless you had some powermeter in your paddle of course )

It appears that you can create power based rowing workouts in TrainingPeaks and they will be used by the Garmin Indoor Rowing app.

I only had time to do a quick 60 second test, so I don't know if there are any quirks. But I got the little target power graph data screen and it correctly showed the target and where my current/3s power was in relation to that target. You can do this with a free TrainingPeaks account, but you can only schedule workouts for today (not in the future and I don't think you can save standard/common workouts to your Garmin workouts and do them whenever; I think they have to be in the Training Calendar). I assume any other training platforms that can create a power based rowing/custom workout would also work as well. 

Thanks for posting and really interesting.  I'll have to dust off my dormant free Training Peaks account for some experimenting soon.

Got this working last night - connects as a virtual trainer sensor, then use indoor row and it logs power, stroke rate, heart rate, but not distance! Anyone get distance to work? Using PM5 with 619 and 13.30 on a Fenix 6.