Improving course navigation visibility and responsiveness for trail running

Hi All,

I've been using my F7 for trail runs, and I find the whole experience to be somewhat frustrating thus far. With default settings, I find the map too difficult to read when bouncing down a trail in varying light conditions. It's way too busy with too much information on it. The map is very detailed and is not easy to read as you're trying to watch your footing and navigate at the same time.

I've done everything that I can think of to improve the visibility of the course, including the following:

1. Disabling the map entirely. Although, I still see very important features such as when I pass underneath a main road, so I suspect the map isn't layer is still being drawn.

2. Because I don't think there's a way to entirely disable the maps (see point #1), I set the map details setting to 'low'

3. I use the night map style.

4. Turn off auto-zoom - this feature can surely screw up your navigation in an area with many trails because the zoom level is always changing. And the font that's used to denote the zoom level is so tiny that you have to stop to see what it is... Not really a good implementation.

5. Set gps to 'all systems' - to address the lag and accuracy issues I'm seeing below. Note: I haven't tried 'auto select' yet - that's next. I am wondering though if the lag is due in part to the map being drawn in the background, even though it's disabled.

Doing the above, I mostly see a breadcrumb course trail, with little chevrons overlaid (and sometimes trail names). The chevrons help to effectively fatten the lines, making them easier to see. So mission accomplished on making the route a bit more visible. However, now I have the following issue: If I miss a turn, the route scrolls off screen rapidly, because the default position of the user is offset toward the bottom of the screen already. I also find the position to be quite laggy - this was clearly illustrated when I ran underneath the highway - the map showed me on the other side of the highway after I'd crossed underneath it. Where I run also has many twisting trails with heavy tree cover - so the lag, and the fact that the compass updates somewhat slowly, makes it difficult to tell which turns you're supposed to take. Maybe that would be helped by enabling the basemap, but then the screen is so busy as to be worthless.

I realize the highway underpass is a harder case, but the tree cover. - I'd hope the watch would be designed to have decent reception there.

IMO, course navigation seems to be optimized more for hiking than running, Is there something I'm missing with the above list that I should be doing to make the watch work better for navigating a course when trail running? While visibility is better - I'd hope to maybe be able to make the course line fatter, but there doesn't seem to be any way to do this.

  • For anyone following this thread, TBT directions produced by Garmin Connect have improved (as of 6/14/2024), at least in the areas I've been running in. You no longer get a ton of extraneous/unnecessary turn notifications. Yes, it will miss the occasional turn, but it is not as nearly annoying as it used to be.

    So that part of the problem has been addressed since this thread was started.

  • I could have written your post. I am a trail runner too and I use navigation often when trail running.

    I agree with you on all points. The navigation is laggy and the"current" position on the map often lags 50-100 ft (15-30m) behind when running fast, which makes it disorienting when going through sharp turns and deciding on which trail to go at the same time.The map orientation is particularly poor. The whole map and navigation experience seems to be optimized for slow moving hikers. 

    I also had to turn auto zoom off because it keeps adjusting based on upcoming turn directions, but there are way too many erroneous turns when running on trails in my area. I haven't had a chance to see any improvements yet. Also, turn directions do miss critical turns sometimes if they aren't at a sharp enough angle. 

  • I might be one of the dissenters here because I've been using my Fenix 7s Pro for routing, tracking bike rides and getting around town and it works great. It took a bit of messing around to set it up the way I like it but I was surprised at how useful it is to have such a powerful GPS on my wrist. I typically used my Edge 530 for my rides but I find I don't need to now as I've got GPS, heart rate and tracking all in one. 

    I initially used BBBike and other Garmin Cycling maps that served me well on the Edge. Sadly, they are a disaster on the smaller screen of the F7. I couldn't hide the insane number of POIs that show up on those maps, even at low detail settings and the lines for everything are so fine they are barely visible. Now I just use the standard Garmin TopoActive maps (which are simplified OSM anyway). They work really well and show many bike/walking paths I ride on.

    The other thing I absolutely love, love, love is being able to send POIs from my iPhone Apple Maps direct to the F7. You select  a POI on the map, click "send via" up arrow in the POI's details and then select the Garmin Connect app. This sends the POI through the Gamin Connect App directly to the watch and saves it in the saved locations but also gives you the option to start routing to it. Very, very cool. It's not a feature mentioned very often and I don't think it's even in the manual but works without fail for me.

    In terms of personal settings, here's where I landed:

    Routing Settings:

    Activity: Mixed Surface Cycling

    Popularity Routing: On (this actually changes the map colour scheme so might be something to experiment with)

    Courses: Follow Course

    Calculation Method: MInimise Distance

    Avoidances: Toll Roads and Ferries only

    - Turn by Turn: Off - TBT switches from the map to written directions and I found it distracting. On my 530, it only shows up in the bottom of the screen but on the watch, this isn't possible and TBH I don't miss it.

    Theme Settings:

    - Map Theme: Popularity

    - Orientation: Track Up

    - User Locations: show

    - Segments: Hide

    - Contours: Hide (I understand this might be a problem for hiking/running but not for the cycling)

    - Track Log: Show

    - Track Colour: Magenta (this has the right level of "funkiness" to pop on these types of screens - same goes for the Edge. But YMMV of course)

    - Auto Zoom: On (but this is up to you)

    - Lock on Road: Off (I do bike paths and tracks so this adds nothing)

    - Detail: Less

    - Shaded Relief: Do not show

    With the above settings, I get a nice thick routing track that is easy to pick up visually when I look down quickly at my watch and has the magenta trail to show where I came from. It includes the chevrons for the route and sometimes throws up the big fat arrows for turns that Garmin uses on the Edge devices. Those arrows were always a bit patchy but it's no biggie as the chevrons work fine for me.

    Hope my settings help others trying to experiment.

  • Personally I use Plotaroute for courses as you can add custom directions and you can create up ahead points as well. Works well for me

  • TBT directions produced by Garmin Connect have improved (as of 6/14/2024)

    I did not notice this yet. Which watch firmware are you on? Are you using the connect app or web version? If app, which version?

  • Using 17.23 on the watch and the web site to create the route, but I think directions are generated on the server side. I am syncing via BT through the app (V5.1, android).

  • Thanks. I think that it was an update on the 17.23 version. It was not in any changelogs, but some YouTubers mentioned in their review for the Q2 update that now there should not be turn prompts anymore when there is no intersection. I think that Garmin connect still adds them, but with 17.23, the watch ignores these useless prompts based on the map. 

  • Hello All

    Nice that Garmin reached the present in 2024 with map based turn instructions.

    Unfortunately they messed it up. In the past you got too much and now you get too less instructions. On a 5km test run yesterday it does gave me three times (around 35% of turns) no instruction at all despite this was a clear change of direction and a different path.

    We need to stick to Plotaroute or similar for the next decade I think. Than Garmin will figuring it out and will introduce the magic of manually set custom instructions.

    See you outside.

  • Thanks for your test results. That's another hint that also the new logic is not really map based. Why they refuse to create real map based TBT in Garmin Connect goes beyond my imagination. Every decent mapping app does this nowadays, but Garmin, a HUGE brand in navigation, cannot figure it out. Quite sad actually. But it goes along well with their overall poor software. 

    Just out of curiosity: does anybody have experience on how the competition (coros, suunto, Polar) handles this in their apps?