Related

Any tricks to increase accuracy of current tempo while running?

Ruben GB
23 days ago

Hi

Since one year, I am a happy owner of a Fenix 6X Pro.

The only relevant things that drives me nuts is the current tempo while running. Even with good satellite signal, the current tempo seems  to be very inaccurate

It is a known issue, but my question is: Is there any way to improve it somehow?

For example, data recording in 1 second instead auto increases dramatically the accuracy of the GPS track.

Is there something similar for tempo?

Strangely, speed while biking seems to be very accurate.

By the way, I think Running dynamics pod could have been used to refine current tempo…there is a known issue with the false stride length, but actually it records cadence, stride length and is even able to calculate power…why do not use this rich data to improve current tempo?

 

Thanks!

Top Replies

All Replies

  • 0 12 days ago in reply to trux

    You don't have to state the obvious :).

    To go back to topic. If someone is hoping in rapid improving of actual pace due buying quite expansive HRM pro, disappointment can easily come since it is does not hold in general.

  • 0 12 days ago in reply to 1000000000

    What I wanted to tell is that I collected sufficient evidence for the claim that the HRM significantly improves distance at outdoor runs even if it is kept in the setting "indoors only". And since it improves the distance, it also proportionally improves the pace.

    It may perhaps not always work for everyone in every situation, but the claim that "it does not hold in general" is exaggerated.  

  • 0 11 days ago in reply to nradov

    "speed" (aka pace) on GPS doesn't require a sat lock of any kind

    GPS chipsets use a trick to get realtime speed by listening to the doppler-shift of the signal

    Unlike distance calculations, speed should be far more accurate

    The problem is the metal case of the Fenix series significantly diminishes any benefit

    Add that to waving your arm around and it makes it even less accurate

    After the endless problems with GPS on the Fenix5 and then the Fenix6 my next watch will not have a metal case, it is not worth the extra weight and the poor GPS anymore

    What's interesting is while the distance calculations may be improved by a stryd footpod, I've noticed the speed calculation when done by the pod are actually WORSE

    But I have a workaround people can try, set your distance auto-lap splits to a quarter mile (or 400 meters) and then you'll get a floating average that is far more accurate than any realtime pace 

    Set the split alerts to show you LAP pace and LAP time.

    Then every 2-3 minutes you see how you are doing and you'll learn to gauge effort vs achieved pace.

  • 0 11 days ago

    Because GPS itself is not accurate (maybe within 5m with clear skies) it is not really possible for current pace to be accurate.  You are better off using Lap Pace instead

  • 0 11 days ago in reply to rinserepeat

    Not sure about the case, the Suunto 9 Peak have a nice metal case and I find speed pretty accurate

    Your workaround with shorter laps in an option, but I would like rather to have my 1KM laps...

  • 0 11 days ago in reply to ronand

    I do not know if I have the "unicorn" Fenix 6X Pro, but I find GPS accuracy and track rather good. In open or medium open (parks with trees, low buildings, mediterranean woodland) I have an accuracy around +-2 meters (Spain, using GPS + Galileo, I do not want to share data with comrade Putin´s Glonass). Only in city center (Madrid / Barcelona) accuracy is lower but OK for a single band device.

    As I said, I do not find problems with tracks or total distance, only with the current pace / speed

  • 0 11 days ago in reply to 1000000000

    I have to check its accuracy. Actually in some test (DC Rainmaker) using the HRM pro as "foot pod" is pretty good for current pace. I will give feedback when my calibration is finished. If it works as a good foot pod (together with running dynamics and power) I think it is a good option to overcome this low accuracy in running pace / speed.

    The discussion moved in this tread rather to the question if the HRM Pro is used when disabled for pace outdoors or it still calibrates somehow pace/ distance when disabled for outdoors. It would be nice if someone in Garmin brings more light about that.

  • 0 11 days ago in reply to Ruben GB

    even when distance/pace is disabled in HRM-Pro/plus settings I know it still enhances acsent/descent calculationa

    because when I would wear my HRM-TRI or HRM-PRO I get much more accurate elevation when running over overpasses than when I am not and it only uses the barometer

    that's another thing GPS is bad at, when going up or down GPS doesn't understand you aren't slowing down in distance moving forward because it is terrible at elevation

    also sharp turns when running or racing will really screw up GPS speed and distance

    Stryd seems to do distance well, I think there is significant lag when it is used for pace/speed and that might be the same problem the HRM-PRO has when used for pace/speed

    This is the DCrainmaker article, it's very well done, I only wish he had compared the distance to GPS outside (and none of that is pace testing)

    www.dcrainmaker.com/.../garmin-hrm-pro-plus-heart-rate-strap-in-depth-review.html

    Treadmill Test Run: Using Outdoor Calibration Data

    Garmin HRM-PRO Plus: 3.80KM
    Stryd V2: 3.78KM
    Garmin Wrist-Based Pace: 3.86KM
    TechnoGym MyRun Treadmill: 3.90KM

  • 0 10 days ago in reply to Ruben GB

    You know that your watch only uses the positions of the satellites to calculate your location and does not talk in direction of those satellites? You do know, don't you?

  • 0 2 days ago

    Hi again

     I have already some experience more with the HRM Pro + with the calibration finished. I tried it with 3 different configuration for my outdoor trainings. To compare current pace I have used also my old and trusty Suunto Ambit 3 Peak (is really incredible how good it works in this regard for a 10 years old device, fussed speed is great) and a Amazfit Cheetah (dual band device)

     Still using FW 26.0

     Here my preliminary conclusions

    1. Pace Speed Indoors Only / Autocalibration ON >As I said before I do not see any difference compared with workouts with my previous Polar H10. Pace seems very wrong when the GPS coverage is not very good.
    2. Pace Speed Always / Autocalibration OFF (it is not possible to have Autocalibration ON in Always). Using the HRM Pro + as “foot pod”, I have very good pace accuracy (compared with Partials, feeling and comparison devices), specially while running more or less close to the mean speeds of the calibration period or slower. Good results in climbs also. More sensible to short stops or strange body movement (skipping people, crossing streets) what makes sense. In faster segments, the pace seems to be a little bit on the lower side by 10-20 seconds per KM (real pace around 5:40-6:00 the watch is showing rather 6:10-6:20). Probably my bad during the calibration I should have included more faster segments.
    3. Pace Speed Indoors Only / Autocalibration OFF: here is the interesting part. I think as stated by @trux the watch is using somehow the HRM Pro + pace data when GPS coverage is not that good. I see because in the segments where I know it has worse coverage, the pace behavior is close to the behavior observed with “Pace Speed Always / Autocalibration OFF”.

     

    I share 3 workouts with those configurations. Route is the same (the 2nd a little bit shorter), weather sunny to partial cloudy skies. GPS + Galileo 1 second. Parks now have very leafy trees so it can affect GPS accuracy in parts of the route.

    Pace Speed Indoors Only / Autocalibration ON > The parts with worse coverage are mostly the 1st km where I can see even pace around 10:00 m/km (flat buildings with 5-6 floors, trees very leafy in Spring) and the Km 4 to 5 (step climb, with parts of 10%, buildings, leafy trees) where again my pace goes close to 9:00 m/km and really is very lazy to recover when the slope is lower). Also close to KM2 (very leafy trees and crossing below streets) and close to KM 4 I have pretty deviated data.

    Pace Indoors /Autocalibration ON

    This is the Pace Speed Always / Autocalibration OFF. It shows much closer to real pace (partials, feeling, comparison devices) figures for the 1st and 4th KM and a more stable results in the rest

    Pace always / Autocalibration OFF

    Pace Speed Indoors Only / Autocalibration OFF > It shows much closer to (2) pace figures for the 1st and 4th KM and closer to (1) where the GPS coverage is better (2nd and 3rd km).

    Pace Indoors / Autocalibration OFF

    By the way, I find the GPS track pretty good for a single band device used in City / Suburban area.

     I will update this when I collect more experience and if there is any changes with FW 27.0. Probably I will include some calibration more with faster pace workouts in order to have better results when I have a faster pace. But for me both using HRM Pro + as main Pace source or combined with GPS seems to have improved the results significantly and solves one of my main issues with the Fenix 6X

     KR and thank you very much for the support!