Related
Options

Switching from Running to Cycling V02 Max for Training Status?

Vansos
over 4 years ago

Given the winter cold, I've been cycling indoors with power meter pedals instead of doing any outdoor running.  For a couple months, my Training Status said that it was using my Cycling V02 Max Trend for its calculations.  Perfect.

Then last week, I went for a few long walks without an HRM and stupidly used the Run Activity with just OHR.  This resulted in a bunch of bad Running V02 Max readings that aren't meaningful.  Unfortunately, even though I've kept cycling indoors, my Training Status switched over last week and started using my Running V02 Max Trend instead (based on the bad data).  I know that deleting the activities doesn't do anything to the recorded V02 max readings so instead, I'm just waiting and hoping that the Training Status will soon switch back over to use my Cycling V02 Max Trend.

But, I've produced four cycling readings and zero running readings in the past five days and Training Status says its still based on my Running V02 Max Trend (annoying!).  Anyone know how long it takes (e.g. how many activities of one vs. the other) for the algorithm to switch over and start using Cycling V02 Max again?  I think that it likes to default to Running in general, but, if I'm not running at all for a given period of time, it really should start using my Cycling numbers again soon I'd hope.

Thanks.

  • 0 over 4 years ago

    Delete the running activity(s) that resulted in a bad VO2 max reading, and see if that helps. Otherwise it could take up to a month before the VO2 Max measured during that run starts getting ignored.

    VO2 Max uses a prioritization system to determine which activity to calculate VO2 Max from:

    1. If there is a recent running VO2 Max measurement, then it always uses that.
    2. If no running VO2 Max is available, then it uses cycling VO2 Max.
    3. If neither running nor cycling VO2 Max measurements are available, then it uses walking VO2 Max.

    Their reasoning is that Running produces the most accurate VO2 Max measurements; second-most accurate is cycling; and the least accurate measurement being walking.

    In your case, the watch is ignoring the Cycling VO2 Max because there's a recent Running one. So if you delete the Running activity you did from your watch and Connect, then I think (hopefully) it will revert back to using the next VO2 Max in the list, which is cycling.

  • 0 over 4 years ago

    Also a helpful tip for avoiding this in the future: The Hiking and Trail Running activities will never impact your VO2 Max - the watch is programmed to ignore those activities when calculating VO2 max. So if you want to be sure that an activity isn't messing with your VO2 max, use those activities instead of Walking and Running.

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to C.sco

    Thanks.  Deleting the activities doesn't seem to do anything unfortunately.  The V02 max readings still show up even after sync'ing several times after deleting the activities.

    I am surprised to read your comments about walking V02 max.  My understanding has been (having had the Fenix 3 and 5 prior to the 6) that only "Running w/ HRM & GPS" and "Cycling w/ Power Meter" produced V02 max readings.  I've historically used Walking activity for that very reason when I'm going on a slow hike and want to record the activity but don't want to affect my V02 max in the system.  If they've added Walking, that must be new or recent (understanding that it's still a third priority).

    I'll report back when it reverts to Cycling again whether that's in a month or less.

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to Vansos

    I think the training status is mostly taken from a rolling 7 day window. So you might luck out in a few days when the run activities (or their ghosts) drop out of that window. Please let us know. Will be interesting to know how long it really takes.

  • 0 over 4 years ago

    Kind of opposite issue. Lots of running, then shift to only cycling for awhile.

    The training status did not update at all! Major smash-fest on the bike, and it says I was "recovering".

    When really load had increased etc. Really not ideal for multisport folks, seriously.

    Pretty disappointing.

  • 0 over 4 years ago

    Did not even know it has a focus in training status. Not really great for a "all in one" watch as Conza said. I would say (and always thought it is) a general measurement. Maybe it would be a good idea for them to implement a general one with the possibility to switch to a specific sports focused one?

  • +1 over 4 years ago

    OK.  It switched back today!  For what it's worth, as of yesterday when it was still using my Running V02 max Trend, out of the past 7 days, there were five days with Cycling V02 max readings and two days with Running V02 max readings.  Today, now that it is using my Cycling V02 max Trend again, looking at the past 7 days, I now have four Cycling V02 max readings and only one day with Running V02 max.  And the last Running V02 max reading was exactly 7 days ago.  So, It looks like the answer is definitely based on the rolling 7 day period.  There's certainly a prioritization algorithm as well.  But anyway, I didn't have to wait a month for all the Running V02s to disappear, so, that's the good part.

    As far as some comments here about the ability to have a single number, my understanding is that V02 max can vary quite significantly between Running and Cycling for reasons including (1) you're using different muscles, and (2) Garmin/Firstbeat are using different algorithms to estimate V02 max based on HR & Speed (run) vs. HR & Power (cycling).  So, I think it's reasonable that they have two distinct readings.

    Anyway, thanks for responding everyone.  

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to Conza

    Your watch needs Power data to calculate Vo2Max from cycling. And Vo2Max is necessary for training status.

    Might want to inform yourself:

    https://www.garmin.com/en-US/performance-data/cycling/#vo2-max

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to Pascal

    But it gives a vo2 cycling max measurement without power... though?

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to Conza

    No, my watch gives only Vo2Max from cycling when I do Indoor Rides on a smart trainer. Outdoor without Powermeter I dont get Vo2Max updates. You really should read the link I posted. You can read there:

    "The Firstbeat analytics engine embedded in your Garmin cycling computer or watch uses your heart rate and power data to reliably estimate your VO2 max by identifying, analyzing and interpreting meaningful performance data during your ride. How hard you ride is placed into the context of how hard your body works to produce your performance."

    Speed is no good measurement of effort on a bike. I.e. you can ride downhill with zero effort (no pedalling) or with a big effort. How is you watch supposed to know just from speed and heart rate? There are too many variables affecting speed to get a reliable estimate of Vo2Max.