Acknowledged
1 month ago
CIQQA-3123

Vivoactive 6 Simulator problems

The Vivoactive 6 simulator does not seem to respond to a Menu command, and only responds to the buttons in a very tiny area along the edge of the button where it meets the body of the watch in the simulator. 

The Vivoactive 5 simulator operates as expected so it looks to me like this is a set of simulator bugs.

Jeff
Parents
  • 1 month ago

    And.... does this mean that a Menu command is not available if the Touch Screen is disabled for operation in a wet environment ?

    Well...

    - speaking of *native* apps, you can't disable the touchscreen without also locking the buttons, so it's a moot point in that case

    - speaking of *CIQ* apps (other than data fields), you could hypothetically implement your own "menu button" (a short press of either the top or bottom button), although it might not be great UX as those buttons are normally reserved for starting/stopping the timer and taking a lap.

    So basically, the functionality you're talking about (disabling the touchscreen while keeping the buttons available) has never been natively possible on Vivoactive/Venu devices, it's only been possible on CIQ apps. (I know we're talking about CIQ apps, but from Garmin's POV, they probably want CIQ apps to be as close to the native experience as possible).

     What is the intention here ?

    Is the basic Menu function being removed in this, and future watches ???

    As speculated elsewhere, I think the point is to "improve" (or at least change) the UX of opening a context-sensitive menu in "touch-first watches" like VA and Venu [*]. iow, instead of the user having to know a certain button shortcut to open the menu, going forward, Garmin wants the user to see a visible indicator that a menu is available, and for them to have an intuitive way of opening the menu. I think it's supposed to be more discoverable and intuitive.

    [*] i.e. By "touch-first" I mean VA and Venu, where most of the functionality requires the touchscreen. and where locking the touchscreen also disables the buttons. Contrast with "touch-optional" 5-button touchscreen watches (e.g. Forerunner/Fenix) where most of the functionality does not require the touchscreen, and the user is allowed to disable the touchscreen without locking the buttons. I don't see Garmin removing the Menu button gesture on "touch-optional" devices, as these devices would no longer work when the touchscreen is disabled.

    Here's a few anecdotal data points for why I think the previous situation with context-sensitive menus is a confusing mess for users, and why I think Garmin absolutely noticed:

    - the oldest watches only ever allowed you to open a context-sensitive menu one way: by long-pressing a certain button (like the UP button on 5-button watches). (Some super old watches had a dedicated menu button that could be short pressed)

    - I know more than one Forerunner user who has no idea that they can open settings by holding UP (meaning they never open settings on their watch at all)

    - Garmin absolutely noticed this, as more recently, they started to allow users to open activity settings by short pressing UP (with a corresponding onscreen button hint), before the activity is started.

    - In Fenix 8, Garmin iterated on the above idea by allowing you to swipe up for activity settings (and by making it obvious by showing part of the settings page on the bottom of the initial activity screen)

    - On 5-button touchscreen watches, the menu situation is more of a mess than ever, since there are now 3 ways to open a context-sensitive menu, 2 of which are sometimes available on the same page

    -- hold UP for menu (available on almost every screen)

    -- on some screens, short press UP for menu or tap button hint (this is often available at the same time as hold UP for menu, and it opens a *different* menu - see music controls page in music apps like Spotify)

    -- on some screens, press START / swipe left / tap button hint to open action menu

    I can absolutely see why Garmin wants to have only one way to open a context-sensitive menu on VA6. To open something like system settings, the user now has to open the activity/app list and scroll to settings, so technically they've made it so that system settings is no longer "context-sensitive"

    I'm waiting to hear from someone with a real va6 to see if my logic works there and not just in the sim

    You mean the logic of opening a Menu2 when the user drags the action menu indicator? I don't see why it wouldn't work, I just think it's not the behaviour that Garmin intends. I think they want you to open an action menu, which is obvious by names of the functions (setActionMenuIndicator and onActionMenu). I don't see how Garmin could prevent you from doing absolutely anything you want in onActionMenu() (like draw something on the current view or vibrate the watch). Just like you can do anything you want in onMenu().

Comment
  • 1 month ago

    And.... does this mean that a Menu command is not available if the Touch Screen is disabled for operation in a wet environment ?

    Well...

    - speaking of *native* apps, you can't disable the touchscreen without also locking the buttons, so it's a moot point in that case

    - speaking of *CIQ* apps (other than data fields), you could hypothetically implement your own "menu button" (a short press of either the top or bottom button), although it might not be great UX as those buttons are normally reserved for starting/stopping the timer and taking a lap.

    So basically, the functionality you're talking about (disabling the touchscreen while keeping the buttons available) has never been natively possible on Vivoactive/Venu devices, it's only been possible on CIQ apps. (I know we're talking about CIQ apps, but from Garmin's POV, they probably want CIQ apps to be as close to the native experience as possible).

     What is the intention here ?

    Is the basic Menu function being removed in this, and future watches ???

    As speculated elsewhere, I think the point is to "improve" (or at least change) the UX of opening a context-sensitive menu in "touch-first watches" like VA and Venu [*]. iow, instead of the user having to know a certain button shortcut to open the menu, going forward, Garmin wants the user to see a visible indicator that a menu is available, and for them to have an intuitive way of opening the menu. I think it's supposed to be more discoverable and intuitive.

    [*] i.e. By "touch-first" I mean VA and Venu, where most of the functionality requires the touchscreen. and where locking the touchscreen also disables the buttons. Contrast with "touch-optional" 5-button touchscreen watches (e.g. Forerunner/Fenix) where most of the functionality does not require the touchscreen, and the user is allowed to disable the touchscreen without locking the buttons. I don't see Garmin removing the Menu button gesture on "touch-optional" devices, as these devices would no longer work when the touchscreen is disabled.

    Here's a few anecdotal data points for why I think the previous situation with context-sensitive menus is a confusing mess for users, and why I think Garmin absolutely noticed:

    - the oldest watches only ever allowed you to open a context-sensitive menu one way: by long-pressing a certain button (like the UP button on 5-button watches). (Some super old watches had a dedicated menu button that could be short pressed)

    - I know more than one Forerunner user who has no idea that they can open settings by holding UP (meaning they never open settings on their watch at all)

    - Garmin absolutely noticed this, as more recently, they started to allow users to open activity settings by short pressing UP (with a corresponding onscreen button hint), before the activity is started.

    - In Fenix 8, Garmin iterated on the above idea by allowing you to swipe up for activity settings (and by making it obvious by showing part of the settings page on the bottom of the initial activity screen)

    - On 5-button touchscreen watches, the menu situation is more of a mess than ever, since there are now 3 ways to open a context-sensitive menu, 2 of which are sometimes available on the same page

    -- hold UP for menu (available on almost every screen)

    -- on some screens, short press UP for menu or tap button hint (this is often available at the same time as hold UP for menu, and it opens a *different* menu - see music controls page in music apps like Spotify)

    -- on some screens, press START / swipe left / tap button hint to open action menu

    I can absolutely see why Garmin wants to have only one way to open a context-sensitive menu on VA6. To open something like system settings, the user now has to open the activity/app list and scroll to settings, so technically they've made it so that system settings is no longer "context-sensitive"

    I'm waiting to hear from someone with a real va6 to see if my logic works there and not just in the sim

    You mean the logic of opening a Menu2 when the user drags the action menu indicator? I don't see why it wouldn't work, I just think it's not the behaviour that Garmin intends. I think they want you to open an action menu, which is obvious by names of the functions (setActionMenuIndicator and onActionMenu). I don't see how Garmin could prevent you from doing absolutely anything you want in onActionMenu() (like draw something on the current view or vibrate the watch). Just like you can do anything you want in onMenu().

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