Application - HR Sleep

Thanks for still working on improving and extending functionality of Sleep HR!:)

However, I am not sure linking HR to DEEP, LIGHT and AWAKE will work without taking movement into consideration (in my case). E.g. there are nights that most of my sleep is in zones 1, 2 and 3, but also nights with 3, 4 and even 5. Having 4 and 5 considered as being awake, would mean I would be awake for a few hours on such a night, which I know is certainly not the case. The only way to prevent that from happening would be to change the min HR setting to a higher value, but then it would not really be my min HR anymore. Also when you have a cold or maybe even have a fever your HR will be higher than normal, which would lead to more awake time.

But, I certainly will test this new feature and share the result here.

Off topic: Btw, today was announced that Beddit has been bought by Apple. I think you are/were a Beddit user as well? Looks like Apple wants to get serious about sleep tracking as well!

I see that Garmin is moderating my post .. but I will see if I can post.

Thanks for taking the time to use HR Sleep. It was a bit of a tossup on what to do with the different areas (deep, light and awake).

The thing .. I can change it obviously. I was debating on what to do, it may be a work in progress.

But the data will be consistent every night .. so that at least you can say that one night was better than the other. It is just another outlet of data for those that like this type of data.

Edit .. I have changed the production release to the following. It is probably a bit closer to reality for many, myself included. We shall see how things work out.

• Sleep zones 0-1 being deep and 2-4 being light and 5 being awake.
  

- Kevin -

Version 1.163 Released

The new HR Sleep version is now live. Please let me know your thoughts on the new Deep, Light and Awake part.

VivoactiveHRGuy

Tried it last night and it was like I expected. I have a min HR setting of 50. The minimum HR that was measured last night was 49. Deep sleep, 2 minutes, light sleep 5 hours and 20 minutes, awake 1 hour and 40 minutes. But, as far as I can remember I slept through the night without being awake.

When I look at Garmin Connect.. Deep sleep 2 hours 26 minutes, light sleep 4 hours 47 minutes, awake 6 minutes.

Tried it last night and it was like I expected. I have a min HR setting of 50. The minimum HR that was measured last night was 49. Deep sleep, 2 minutes, light sleep 5 hours and 20 minutes, awake 1 hour and 40 minutes. But, as far as I can remember I slept through the night without being awake.

When I look at Garmin Connect.. Deep sleep 2 hours 26 minutes, light sleep 4 hours 47 minutes, awake 6 minutes.

Is it going to be like the Garmin numbers .. I doubt it. I do not know how Garmin does their sleep .. but it seems to be by movement only (as per posts on the forum). Mine as you know is 100% HR based. So that in itself is likely going to be enough to see that the numbers are not going to be the same.

So based on your data .. it would appear that Garmin is calling more of your sleep deep than I am, and the criteria for being awake is higher on their side.

What could be done is something like this .. ? Take your min HR value and say anything less than min +5 is Deep, from +5 to + 10 is Light and anything above that is awake. It surely could be tweaked ... especially on the awake side.

I am 100% willing to work on it .. and I too will try to log my data for the next while until it appears to be better.

Based on what I see .. I think the thing to do going forward is to base these 3 items on the HR readings themselves and not the Sleep Zones as it is being done now. The reason, it will be much better to fine tune the ratios for the 3 items.

So as I see it now, the deep needs a bigger piece of the pie, the light a bit less (which will be taken care of by giving deep more), and the awake needs to be less .. ie a higher HR criteria number for being awake.

I have some preliminary numbers worked out .. and I will re-code it today and re-release it. It may take a few days to tweak it.

But the main thing that needs attention is the awake part .. as deep and light is pretty arbitrary in the whole sleep picture. But as long as the criteria are the same every night .. then you can mentally do a comparison.

Even on my Beddit I see data that I do not believe .. so the whole sleep thing is a bit of a question right now.

Edit .. I have re-coded it and am testing it. I have also set my min to 50. I will likely update the public production version later tonight.

Note on Garmin Connect and HR Sleep

Just a note .. HR Sleep DOES NOT upload any data to Garmin Connect. That data you see under your sleep area is GARMIN derived data only and is not at all related to HR Sleep.

Having used your app for a while I have noticed my average HR during sleep is about 10 higher than the min HR during one night. And also each night the min HR and average HR is quite different. Would it be an idea to use the min HR registered during a night dynamically as the start value of zone 0 instead of the fixed setting (sonuse it retrospectively)? This could probably also help to determine deep sleep, light sleep and awake.

Having used your app for a while I have noticed my average HR during sleep is about 10 higher than the min HR during one night. And also each night the min HR and average HR is quite different. Would it be an idea to use the min HR registered during a night dynamically as the start value of zone 0 instead of the fixed setting (sonuse it retrospectively)? This could probably also help to determine deep sleep, light sleep and awake.

The problem with a dynamic min HR is that you could not data from one night to another. That is the reason why it is constant, so that the criteria for every night is exactly the same.

I bet that Garmin does exactly the same thing in their sleep tracking (though theirs is based on movement rather than HR data). But if you are at times a restless sleeper then it could be an issue as the data could be all over the map.

Unless your fitness level changes significantly .. where your min HR (and likely average) values would drop due to better cardiac performance, you do not want to be changing your min HR value.

As you already know that movement (and HR to the same degree) is a bit of a toss up as you could be watching TV for example and the device could think you are sleeping if you are not moving and your HR is lowered. Thus your 11.5 hours of sleep data the other day.

Re the findings above .. I absolutely know that the data could be very dynamic from one day to another. I too have good sleep days .. and bad sleep days. But at least .. I can look at my average and minimum and colored squares and see how things were. Also .. the average for the 2 hour segments is a great way to see how your HR was through the night.

I am going to release my re-coded version in a few minutes and encourage feedback as to how you find the data, just as you did earlier today. I fully expect that it could take a few days to tweak the ranges for the 3 areas. But at least it should be easier going forward as they are not based on sleep zones now, but rather on the HR values directly.

But do I expect my numbers to match those of Garmin .. honestly no. But I would like to fix in particular the awake part to be more realistic than release one of yesterday.

VivoactiveHRGuy