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LTE Support

the-ninth

While implementing Wi-Fi support for web requests in my app, I also considered adding LTE support. From a technical perspective, this appears relatively straightforward, since the communication model is similar to Bluetooth. It seems that only additional handling of connectionInfo[:lte] would be required, plus in my case some work on the visual connectivity indicators.

However, I am unsure whether the effort is justified. As far as I can tell, Garmin has released only two LTE-enabled devices: the vívoactive 3 LTE and the Forerunner 945 LTE. Of these, only the Forerunner 945 LTE is capable of running my app.

Although the newer Fenix 8 Pro includes LTE-related features, it does not appear to provide general IP-based connectivity for CIQ apps.

So this is partly speculative, but I would be very interested in your perspective. Why did Garmin discontinue LTE after those two devices? Do you think LTE might return in future models with broader support for third-party apps?

I am also curious about the technical design decisions. With Wi-Fi, the emphasis seems to be on battery conservation through a dedicated sync mode. In contrast, LTE appears to have been designed as an always-on connection. What was the reasoning behind that approach?

  • the-ninth said:
    With Wi-Fi, the emphasis seems to be on battery conservation through a dedicated sync mode. In contrast, LTE appears to have been designed as an always-on connection. What was the reasoning behind that approach?

    Garmin devices are focused on outdoor use.

    WiFi is generally an indoor thing and has very limited range. So, it makes sense to limit WiFi use.

    LTE has more utility outdoors. So, it’s a better choice for “always on” contact/communication (like for “emergencies” or “tracking”.)

    None of the Garmin devices are general purpose computers (like smartphones). So, it shouldn’t be surprising that Garmin’s use of LTE is limited (as in not providing general “IP-based connectivity”).

    LTE makes sense for a device used for running but less for a device used for hiking. (Not needing to carry a phone is some-what of a “thing” for runners. It’s also a way to compete with the Apple Watch in that market.)

    Adding more stuff impacts battery life and long-battery life is a very important feature of Garmin devices.

    The LTE in the Fenix 8 Pro seems mostly to support the InReach stuff. Garmin likely considered battery life in how they used it. (The Fenix 8 Pro InReach stuff is “interesting” but doesn’t seem quite as useful as it should be.)

    the-ninth said:
    However, I am unsure whether the effort is justified.

    It doesn’t seem you indicated what you want to do. So, this is hard to answer. If it’s not related to (simple) communicating with people or tracking, it probably isn’t worth it. (Seems like it’s not essential to support it and you could add it later.)

  • in reply to dpawlyk

    For the f8 pro

    SATELLITE MESSAGING

    When you’re venturing into off-grid locations, including up to 50 miles offshore, the watch’s inReach technology allows you to send messages and get location check-ins — once you establish a satellite link — with no phone connection required.

    LTE CONNECTIVITY

    Going for a run? Taking a swim? Leave your phone behind, and use your watch’s LTE connection1 to exchange messages and make voice calls — plus let friends follow along with LiveTrack location sharing and location check-ins. Even get access to weather conditions and forecasts.

    Seems that in both case there is limited functionality.

  • in reply to jim_m_58

    Developers seem to want the Garmin devices to work like smartphones (something they are familiar with).

    The Garmin devices are kind of weird (not something they are familiar with).

    General computer > smartphone > Apple/android watch > Garmin devices.

  • in reply to dpawlyk
    dpawlyk said:
    It doesn’t seem you indicated what you want to do. So, this is hard to answer. If it’s not related to (simple) communicating with people or tracking, it probably isn’t worth it. (Seems like it’s not essential to support it and you could add it later.)

    It is relatively simple in the sense that it does not involve a high data volume. There are users who would appreciate being able to use the app without having their phone with them. The main enabler for that would be Wi-Fi, which is a viable option since the app focuses on smart home control and is primarily used around the home, although there are use cases for remote access as well.

    That said, my question about whether it is justified was more about whether LTE app connectivity is something Garmin plans to make available again in future models.

  • in reply to the-ninth

    (You answer your own question.)

    There is very little point in supporting LTE in this case.

    The home automation (in the house) almost requires WiFi. (People using home automation will almost certainly have WiFi.)

    LTE support appears to be a case of YAGNI.

    ================

    the-ninth said:
    That said, my question about whether it is justified was more about whether LTE app connectivity is something Garmin plans to make available again in future models.

    I talked about how it appears Garmin is dealing with LTE. Seems like it's going to be limited use for a while yet (even if it is included in more devices).

    Even if Garmin adds general LTE in the future, it still doesn't provide any benefit for your purpose.

  • in reply to dpawlyk
    dpawlyk said:
    Even if Garmin adds general LTE in the future, it still doesn't provide any benefit for your purpose.

    It does. As I mentioned, there are use cases for running my app outside the house, for example for remote control or checking the status of things at home.

    A very typical scenario is opening garage doors or entrance gates via the watch or cycling computer, often from areas where there is no reliable Wi-Fi connection. In most situations people will have their phone with them, but some do not. So if LTE is available on the device, it makes sense to offer that option.

  • in reply to the-ninth

    Sure, there's that. Still, WiFi still might work for some of it.

    It's still appears to be the case that Garmin support for LTE is limited and will be for a while.

    It appears the only recent use of LTE by Garmin is with the F8 Pro. You could take that as an indication of what Garmin plans in the newer future. (Or you could wait and see.)

    In any case, it seems like releasing what you have and deferring support for LTE would be reasonable to do.

  • in reply to dpawlyk
    dpawlyk said:
    In any case, it seems like releasing what you have and deferring support for LTE would be reasonable to do.

    Yes, I think so too.

  • in reply to the-ninth

    I've played around some with one of the Garmin IQ apps for Home Assistant. I haven't figured out how useful it will be for me,

  • See this thread.  The only Garmin device that can access the LTE is the VA3MLTE.  None of the newer devices expose the LTE to CIQ apps.  So there is no reason to support LTE.  

    forums.garmin.com/.../lte-connectivity-in-the-945