Instinct 2x has API lvl 3.4.0 instead of 4.2.0

FlowState said:

I think they did but they broke a lot of stuff in old posts:

I'm talking about stuff that isn't here  (like 800 and 810 posts). This stuff had value when they said they'd move it over. That stuff still has value (there are a few people still using these older units).

FlowState said:

Interesting. But I don't get how Garmin as a company can't choose any platform it wants for the forums? This platform is a 3rd party platform and so was the previous platform.

I'm suggesting the forums are kind of a side project. That they exist merely due to volunteer effort and Garmin doesn't want to get too involved. I'm not sure how Garmin imposing the platform (for something the company has no direct expertise with) on a volunteer group would fly.

FlowState said:

I mean if they're outsourcing the forums to some other group, that group also has the ability to choose the platform they want, and I assume Garmin would have the ability to specify the platform, or least certain requirements.

This is presuming (more or less) that the other group are "idiots" who can't/didn't make a careful choice. It's actually possible that there are good reasons for the choice they made. (Maybe, the idea was that it would be easier to move the old forum posts over.)

FlowState said:

If I it were me, I would want stuff like:

Start paying for it, I guess.

dpawlyk said:

This is presuming (more or less) that the other group are "idiots" who can't/didn't make a careful choice. It's actually possible that there are good reasons for the choice they made. (Maybe, the idea was that it would be easier to move the old forum posts over.)

I'm sure they have good reasons. I'm guessing one of the features they wanted was the "ideas" format of the various bug reports sections. I legit don't think they're "idiots", they just don't care about UI/UX and bugs as much as some "power users" might. I think even a lot of "normal" (i.e. non-outspoken) posters may be aware of bugs and quirks in the forums, but they just live with it.

I'm just saying that the presence of another group that manages the forums doesn't really explain the current state of the forums (to me) compared to the scenario where Garmin itself manages the forums. Either way, each group is free to choose the platform they want afaik.

dpawlyk said:

Start paying for it, I guess.

Fair enough haha. Other companies, including Garmin competitors, use stuff like NodeBB or Discourse. Maybe I'm biased bc I used Garmin forums a lot, but most other companies (whether bigger or smaller than Garmin) which actually still have forums (or user communities) seem to have a solution that at least has better UI/UX, if not all the same features. But what's the point of having lots of features if some of them don't work very well? (Ppl have made a similar complaint about Garmin products themselves.)

I don't expect it to change, and I don't think we're entitled to our choice of forums. Then again, a lot of the participation of these forums  pretty much constitutes unpaid volunteer labor by Garmin users and CIQ devs. Ofc nobody forces us to post.

dpawlyk said:

Again, this is calling them "idiots" (in some form).

I'm really trying not to tho. I don't think they're idiots, I think they have different priorities for the forum than I do, which is fine. It's their forum, they're paying for, etc. That doesn't stop me from identifying stuff that I wish to be improved, in a perfect world, even though I know it will never happen. Yes, I realize that's commonly referred to as "whining".

dpawlyk said:

(The presumption that the people managing the forum aren't "power users" is amusing.)

I'm not presuming the forum managers aren't power users, I'm saying power users aren't the main demographic of the forums, afaict.

And that's ok, since power users haven't been the main demographic of almost any consumer tech for a long time. Someone at my office who works in a non-technical role may be very happy with Excel or Google Sheets, but they'd absolutely hate VS Code (substitute your favorite text editor or IDE here), because a spreadsheet is made for general use, and VS Code is made for a very narrow demographic (compared to the general population.)

EDIT: I also think there are several bugs and limitations that affect non-power users and/or casual users of the forums, such as poor mobile UX, but whatever. None of that stuff is gonna change.

dpawlyk said:

it seems fairly clear to me that the forum is little related to things the company does.

I realize the forums and the products the company makes are disconnected and unrelated, it's just funny to me that both of those things could be seen as having similar (classes) of issues: poor UI/UX, bugs that recur or are never fixed, etc. To me it reflects the corporate culture, but that's just me looking at the surface as outsider.

Obviously I'm clueless as to the actual reasons for any of this stuff.

dpawlyk said:

TBH the lack of concern for UI and UX in the forums mirrors what I see in Garmin products. I mean Garmin didn't develop the forum platform but they chose it.

"TBH", I think the UI/UX issues is because Garmin is evolving "legacy" stuff running on computers with limited capacity. That is, they might not be able to make radical changes in UI/UX without the risk of things breaking in disastrous ways. "TBH", it seems fairly clear to me that the forum is little related to things the company does.

I get that you're calling me out for typing TBH. Maybe I should've typed IMO instead, but that could be seen as equally disingenuous.

I should've just said  "in my uninformed and highly subjective opinion".

FlowState said:

I'm really trying not to tho. I don't think they're idiots, I think they have different priorities for the forum than I do, which is fine. It's their forum, they're paying for, etc.

I realize that you are not trying to. The issue is that you only are pointing out why the choice was a (fairly) big mistake without any indication that the choice might involve other decisions.

FlowState said:

That doesn't stop me from identifying stuff that I wish to be improved, in a perfect world, even though I know it will never happen.

The issue is that it's one sided. You aren't indicating that you have any awareness that there might be other things going on.

All of that is fair. I'll just say the forum has lots of issues/quirks and most (if not all) probably won't change.

FlowState said:

I realize the forums and the products the company makes are disconnected and unrelated,

What you wrote earlier indicated that you thought the opposite.

FlowState said:

Someone at my office who works in a non-technical role may be very happy with Excel or Google Sheets, but they'd absolutely hate VS Code (substitute your favorite text editor or IDE here), because a spreadsheet is made for general use, and VS Code is made for a very narrow demographic (compared to the general population.)

(This is weird. Spreadsheets have one purpose and VS Code (IDEs) have a completely different and unrelated purpose. Spreadsheets also manage to encourage a very different way to think about problems. IDEs are just fancy editors.)

=======================

I'll apologize (a little!) for using your comments to make a point.

FlowState said:

That doesn't stop me from identifying stuff that I wish to be improved, in a perfect world, even though I know it will never happen.

It's cheap/easy to "identify stuff" you wish to be improved. And, many of the people making these suggestions can't "imagine" why those improvements aren't adopted. It's all "pros" with no "cons".

I sort of wish that people making suggestions would at least acknowledge there might be reasons not to do the improvements. (Another thing that "will never happen").

This might be a better example of the issue I'm talking about.

https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/cycling/f/edge-explore-2/346466/why-not-design-an-edge-with-the-size-of-explore-and-the-functions-of-840

This suggestion is really half a thought. (It's also a little "since it's something I want, clearly everybody wants it too".)

As I (hopefully) showed there, it's not that hard to imagine why that idea wouldn't make much sense. (Choosing different forum software might not be as clear.)

Hi folks,

Very interesting discussion

I've added bug report (idea? sound weird) in the bug section )  idea-bug-2x-flashlight-api