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Daily suggested workout- Poor algorithm?

Pete1336
over 3 years ago

I own a FR 945 and an Edge 830. Overall I like both products and believe they enhance my cycling and overall fitness experience. I'm a cyclist, not a runner. Ive been wearing the 945 24/7 for several months.

Im a 52 yr old male in pretty good shape having been a keen cyclist for the last several years. I workout on the turbo trainer using Zwift on average 3-4 times a week. Recently, having retired from full time work I signed up for the 'Active off season' training plan on Zwift but sacked it off during the second week due to the boredom of 3 hr workouts on the bike, my Vo2 max dropping from 49 to 46 and a suspicion that this was due to over training. I thought I'd take advantage of the 'daily suggested workout' feature of my 945, thinking the watch is aware of all my workouts, my health and performance stats...it must know what I need. 

My GC training status was telling me that I was currently unproductive and it recommended an anaerobic activity so I decided to do it today. The watch recommended this:

  

As you can see, a 57 min workout with a few sprints thrown in but crucially note the estimated Anaerobic gain of 2.5

I found the workout really easy and was disappointed to note that it didn't give me the anaerobic gain estimated- it gave me a gain of 1.0- AND the primary ride benefit was Base! See next pic.

Am I missing something here then? Im lacking in anaerobic activity, the watch recommends an anaerobic workout, I follow the watches suggestion  but the end result is that the main benefit achieved is BASE not anaerobic!  Yes I appreciate the gain of 2.5 was estimated but its out by quite a bit. Clearly the workout suggested by the watch wasn't taxing enough leading me to believe that the algorithm used isn't fit for purpose?

Thoughts?

Thanks, Pete

  • 0 over 3 years ago in reply to Ivan_Toulouse

    Don't get disheartened by the label. It's just a standard label based on the arrows for load and fitness level. Each combination will have it's label.

    images.app.goo.gl/HMEbNcZ2G9q5M4XSA

  • 0 over 3 years ago in reply to Ivan_Toulouse
    Ivan_Toulouse said:
    gave up on daily suggested workout, because even when I was following the instruction strictly, after a few runs the watch tell me that I am unproductive. That brings me to the next point I hate about the training status. How can I be unroductive when I was out running and not sitting on the couch, this I find mind blowing. Ok, I could understand to be unproductive, when I do only recovery runs, but the times the watch told me I was unproductiv, I did sprints or vo2max runs. I would get it when the watch would tell me I am overreaching, but not unproductive. So for me the whole training suggestion and also the training status is useless and even counter productiv.

    This may be an obvious point, but

    Training = Exercise + Recovery

    You don't get instantly faster after a workout. It is only during recovery days/weeks that the body gets the chance to make all those adaptations that actually make you fitter and faster.

    Challenging workouts can be fatiguing, and lead to a higher HR for a given pace, and therefore a lower VO2Max estimate (and an Unproductive Status). But after some recovery time (AKA sitting on the couch), your body has had the chance to respond and adapt to the demands you placed on it, the next time you may find a lower HR for a given pace, a higher VO2Max estimate, and a Productive Status.

    If you find the reported Training Status confusing and frustrating during that time lag between workouts and actual performance gains, there is the option to pause Training Status, while still following the daily suggested workouts.

  • 0 over 3 years ago in reply to mcalista

    Thanks for your feedback mcalista, but I do take rest days and also the daily training suggestions takes recovery in consideration.  Your advice to pause the training status also has the consequence that the daily training recommendation no longer works. At least this is what my watch is telling me if I want to deactivate the training status.

  • 0 over 3 years ago

    I've also been following Garmins suggested workouts recently, for over a month anyway. This is the before and after from tonight's sprint session. As you can see it's not perfect but not a million miles away either. 

    Quite enjoy these sprint sessions, 10 seconds effort with 3 minutes recovery is right up my street Grinning

  • 0 over 3 years ago

    For those new to the thread, looking for information how the feature works, please see the article here. Using the Daily Suggested Workout Feature on a Forerunner 745 and 945

  • 0 over 3 years ago in reply to Garmin-Brooks

    Thanks Garmin-Brooks. Even when I have enabled the Daily suggestion it does not pop up anymore. If I want to know what the suggestion is, I always have to look up in the training menu, and I already made a factory reset, but i didn't help.

  • 0 over 3 years ago

    My suggestion has been the same for days or weeks.

    it says “dropping” and suggest slow or rest.

    I’m on a run streak, but mostly taking it easy, ie easy low bpm runs.

    But I don’t know what the watch means by “dropping”?

  • 0 over 3 years ago

    I too have issues with the ‘suggested workout’ feature. I think it only considers one activity at a time, either running or riding depending which has been your dominant activity for the last 7 days as I find I can do a super tough bike session then the next day it wants me to do a hard sprint session, or I can do a recovery bike and next day it wants another recovery run or rest day even. I think it’s looking only at my running.

    What also makes no sense is that the recommended workout options for bike & run can be completely different, eg for ‘base’ it’ll tell me to run at a pace that would be Tempo for me but the bike alternate would be very low recovery effort. Totally different HRs. 

    In your example, I wondered if maybe your Garmin account FTP is not set to the correct value? Could be worth checking. Also, if you spend TOO long in HR Z4/5 then you lose anaerobic credit for an activity so be aware of that too. 

  • 0 over 3 years ago in reply to 9347781
    9347781 said:
    In your example, I wondered if maybe your Garmin account FTP is not set to the correct value? Could be worth checking. Also, if you spend TOO long in HR Z4/5 then you lose anaerobic credit for an activity so be aware of that too. 

    Well i have all the physiological setting as i want them ie, as true to realitity as possible. If thats what you ment?
    I still wonder what it means by "dropping"

  • 0 over 3 years ago in reply to Dan.Boilermaker

    Are you using the strap or just the watch?

    I think the HR pick up is going to be worst off if you are not using the strap.