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Daily suggested workout- Poor algorithm?

Pete1336
over 3 years ago

I own a FR 945 and an Edge 830. Overall I like both products and believe they enhance my cycling and overall fitness experience. I'm a cyclist, not a runner. Ive been wearing the 945 24/7 for several months.

Im a 52 yr old male in pretty good shape having been a keen cyclist for the last several years. I workout on the turbo trainer using Zwift on average 3-4 times a week. Recently, having retired from full time work I signed up for the 'Active off season' training plan on Zwift but sacked it off during the second week due to the boredom of 3 hr workouts on the bike, my Vo2 max dropping from 49 to 46 and a suspicion that this was due to over training. I thought I'd take advantage of the 'daily suggested workout' feature of my 945, thinking the watch is aware of all my workouts, my health and performance stats...it must know what I need. 

My GC training status was telling me that I was currently unproductive and it recommended an anaerobic activity so I decided to do it today. The watch recommended this:

  

As you can see, a 57 min workout with a few sprints thrown in but crucially note the estimated Anaerobic gain of 2.5

I found the workout really easy and was disappointed to note that it didn't give me the anaerobic gain estimated- it gave me a gain of 1.0- AND the primary ride benefit was Base! See next pic.

Am I missing something here then? Im lacking in anaerobic activity, the watch recommends an anaerobic workout, I follow the watches suggestion  but the end result is that the main benefit achieved is BASE not anaerobic!  Yes I appreciate the gain of 2.5 was estimated but its out by quite a bit. Clearly the workout suggested by the watch wasn't taxing enough leading me to believe that the algorithm used isn't fit for purpose?

Thoughts?

Thanks, Pete

  • 0 over 3 years ago

    I find I have this issue as well specifically for running sprint workouts. The suggested sprint workout will predict anaerobic TE of 2.5-2.8 however actual anaerobic TE will be around 1.5 after hitting the sprint paces to plan (usually slightly faster). 

    I’ve also had sprint workouts suggested multiple days in a row which I assume is because I haven’t gained the anaerobic TE that it thought I would.

    I’m not sure which is right or wrong. Is the suggested workout over estimating the anaerobic TE or is the actual anaerobic TE lower than it should be given than heart rate won’t climb that high for short 10 second sprints with long recoveries.

  • 0 over 3 years ago in reply to neb84x

    For those of you who are reporting lower than expected Anaerobic TE, are you using the onboard OHR, or a chest strap for the HR data for these sprint intervals?

  • 0 over 3 years ago in reply to mcalista

    I’m using a chest strap (HRM-RUN). Heart rate does not get very high at all for 10 second sprints with 3 min rests.

  • 0 over 3 years ago in reply to neb84x

    Anaerobic TE is really looking at the RATE OF INCREASE rather than how how it goes - although over 10 seconds, these concepts are tightly related. And a chest strap is more responsive than OHR.

  • 0 over 3 years ago in reply to neb84x

    It won’t. There’s insufficient time for the heart to react before you’ve slowed down again. You can’t beat physiology. There’s usually a 20 to 30s delay, sometimes more, before heart rate properly responds and reaches a level commensurate with a hard effort.

  • 0 over 3 years ago in reply to mcalista

    The algorithm is definitely not intelligent.

    Why would Garmin recommend a sprint activity if user is not using a chest strap? Shouldn't the algorithm check this?

  • 0 over 3 years ago in reply to DPSK
    DPSK said:

    The algorithm is definitely not intelligent.

    Why would Garmin recommend a sprint activity if user is not using a chest strap? Shouldn't the algorithm check this?

    umm, YOUR BODY gets the same benefit from sprint workouts, regardless of the measurement device.

    Are you seriously advocating that Garmin ban sprint workouts without a chest strap?

    Are you seriously advocating that the Suggested Workout should suddenly change once you press the Start button and the watch realizes you don't have a chest strap connected.

  • 0 over 3 years ago in reply to mcalista
    mcalista said:

    Are you seriously advocating that Garmin ban sprint workouts without a chest strap?

    Are you seriously advocating that the Suggested Workout should suddenly change once you press the Start button and the watch realizes you don't have a chest strap connected.

    It is good to put a disclaimer on the limitation of the sprint without a chest strap before doing the workout. So users can understand.

    It is meaningless to predict a certain load if the load is not achievable realistically.

    Yes users can do the sprints. They are good. The problem comes when users complain they can't achieve the load.

  • 0 over 3 years ago in reply to DPSK
    DPSK said:
    It is good to put a disclaimer on the limitation of the sprint without a chest strap before doing the workout. So users can understand.

    It does not matter whether you have a chest strap or not for short duration sprints. In neither case can your heart physically respond fast enough. However, it is possible that you can track more of the change with a chest strap.

    As said, you cannot beat physiology.

  • 0 over 3 years ago

    I gave up on daily suggested workout, because even when I was following the instruction strictly, after a few runs the watch tell me that I am unproductive. That brings me to the next point I hate about the training status. How can I be unroductive when I was out running and not sitting on the couch, this I find mind blowing. Ok, I could understand to be unproductive, when I do only recovery runs, but the times the watch told me I was unproductiv, I did sprints or vo2max runs. I would get it when the watch would tell me I am overreaching, but not unproductive. So for me the whole training suggestion and also the training status is useless and even counter productiv.