Fenix 8 MIP seconds in CIQ watchfaces disappear

FlowState said:

As far as I know, for both Forerunner and Fenix MIP devices, the built-in digital watchfaces have digital seconds

Not all

actually, those dots around the perimeter are digital seconds :) 

derek87 said:

actually, those dots around the perimeter are digital seconds :)

That is a question of definition.

In the case of the watches, "digital seconds" means for me: a directly readable number is displayed.
For me, analog means that there is a "marker" (either a hand or a dot) that points in one direction and from which you can read the seconds.

For me, this are digital seconds:

However, small points are easier to implement for CIQ developers, as the time available for a screen update is extremely short.

bluefish said:

FlowState said:

As far as I know, for both Forerunner and Fenix MIP devices, the built-in digital watchfaces have digital seconds

Not all

You are changing the intent / spirit of my statement by cutting it short. What I said was:

"As far as I know, for both Forerunner and Fenix MIP devices, the built-in digital watchfaces have digital seconds which are constantly visible and changing"

The point I really wanted to make was that as far as I know, on Forerunner and Fenix, for any watchface which has digital seconds, the digital seconds are constantly visible and changing. Here I will clarify that by "digital seconds", I mean numerals [e.g. "15"].

I wasn't even thinking about digital watchfaces which don't have "digital seconds" but instead have a graphical seconds indicator like you've posted. Yes, my statement can be taken to imply that all digital watchfaces have digital seconds, but that wasn't the point of my statement.

Like if I said "I heard that for some Fenix MIP watches, the built-in analog watchfaces have an analog seconds hand that disappears after a long time", would you then cut down that quote to "built-in analog watchfaces have an analog seconds hand" and be like "AHA here's an analog watchface which doesn't have a seconds hand at all!!!!!111!!" Obviously you would know I wasn't actually trying to make the point that all analog watchfaces have a seconds hand.

You know, this is the problem with trying to be too precise with words. The more precise you try to be, the more you open yourself up to have your main point undermined by people who argue against a secondary point. I mean, we've all done it, including myself.

If I had just said something like "MIP devices have permanent seconds" without specifying what kind of watchface or what kind of seconds, if anyone pushed back, it would've been a lot easier for me to say "oh what I really meant was..." (Yes, I'm aware I just did that anyway.)

I think it kind of sucks that being vague [intentionally or not] usually "wins" compared to trying to put forth a detailed, good faith argument, but oh well. Obviously I suck at arguing since I can't get my point across briefly.

And to be clear, it doesn't even really matter if not all built-in MIP watchfaces with digital seconds have digital seconds which are always-visible/always-changing. It's enough that some built-in MIP watchfaces are like that, because as far as I know, none of the AMOLED watchfaces are like that.

So to be absolutely clear, this is my argument:

As far as I know, on Forerunner and Fenix MIP devices, some (not necessarily all) built-in watchfaces have constantly visible and changing elements, such as digital seconds or HR. I don't claim that all built-in watchfaces have such elements, and I don't claim that the behaviour is exactly the same across all of the above-mentioned devices. For example, on my Forerunner 955, the analog seconds hand on built-in watchfaces is always visible and always changing, but I've heard that on Fenix 6/7, the analog seconds hand disappears after a long time [longer than 30 seconds].

Starting with 2017 MIP watches, It is also possible to implement such a watchface in CIQ, where some elements are constantly visible and changing, under certain constraints [can only use a certain amount of power, can only update part of the screen]

In contrast, as far I know, no Garmin AMOLED watch has a built-in watchface with always-visible, always-changing elements. I am 100% sure that no such watchface can be created in CIQ.

TL;DR

- For Forerunner and Fenix MIP, some built-in watchfaces have constantly visible, constantly changing elements. CIQ devs are allowed to create watchfaces with constantly visible, constantly changing elements

- To my knowledge, no Garmin AMOLED devices have watchfaces with constantly visible, constantly changing elements. CIQ devs are not allowed to create such watchfaces either

And my point is that even if one can argue that constantly visible, constantly changing watchface elements makes more sense for AMOLED than MIP, obviously Garmin does not think so. Garmin obviously thinks the opposite.