YouTube Music not supported

Same thing, waiting for Youtube Music support on my Fenix 8

When Google went from the Pixel Watch to the Pixel Watch 2, a forced app update requirement didn't happen. When Apple went from many Watch releases to newer watch releases, it didn't happen. Using an example of Apple's Intel to ARM or Windows to ARM is not valid logic. Did the core processor change from the Epix Pro/Fenix 7 to the Fenix 8? No, it didn't.

It's not one Connect IQ app, it is ANY Connect IQ app that hasn't been explicitly updated to work with the Fenix 8 series of watches. And this happens EVERY time Garmin releases a new watch. Developers are expected to go in and modify their apps specific to the new watches.

I think it's right to question this obviously broken process on Garmin's side. Neither Google or Apple have a requirement to update apps every time they release a new version of their respective wearables. (Or in Google's case, any vendor that utilizes WearOS.) Garmin has smart people. They should have the ability to remove a restriction that requires developers to update their apps to support new watches that are ostensibly the same. (i.e., create a better SDK)

I wonder how many more apps would be on this platform if developers weren't forced to go through this process every time a new watch is released. I've personally used several apps that were ostensibly orphaned because the developer didn't update to support a newer watch model. It's a sunk cost in terms of time--especially for free apps from small developers. Clearly that's not the case wtih Google--but I'd bet this isn't really a large enough platform for them to lose any sleep over.

JBHORNER said:

When Google went from the Pixel Watch to the Pixel Watch 2, it didn't happen. When Apple went from many Watch releases to newer watch releases, it didn't happen. But, let's ride with your logic. Did the core processor change from the Epix Pro/Fenix 7 to the Fenix 8? No, it didn't.

It's not one Connect IQ app, it is ANY Connect IQ app that hasn't been explicitly updated to work with the Fenix 8 series of watches. And this happens EVERY time Garmin releases a new watch. Developers are expected to go in and modify their apps specific to the new watches.

JBHORNER said:

They should have the ability to remove a restriction that requires developers to update their apps to support new watches that are ostensibly the same. (i.e., create a better SDK)

I hate to "well akshually", but well akshually, Connect IQ has a process which basically does what you're describing: it's called auto migration. Basically when a new device is released that Garmin deems "close enough" to an existing device, apps which support the existing device will be auto migrated to the new device (provided the app dev has opted-in to this behavior.)

Unfortunately, these days, newer devices usually have enough differences (especially with the change from MIP to AMOLED) that auto migration doesn't happen.

For example Fenix 7 (and 7 Pro) devices have MIP screens with display resolutions of 240 x 240, 260 x 260 and 280 x 280, with support for 64 colors.

Fenix 8 AMOLED devices have display resolutions of 416 x 416 and 454 x 454, with support for 65536 colors.

So clearly on those grounds alone, apps built for fenix 7 / 7 Pro would not be eligible for auto migration to Fenix 8 AMOLED.

Sure, you could argue that maybe apps built for Epix Pro or Epix gen 2 Pro should be eligible for auto migration to Fenix 8 AMOLED. You could also argue that Fenix 7 / 7 Pro should've been auto-migrated to Fenix 8 Solar.

One possible explanation could be that there's other criteria we don't know about which invalidates auto migration in this case. Another possibility could be that the app developers themselves have opted out of auto migration. (Perhaps they insist on testing with real devices.)

Could also be that Garmin doesn't allow auto migration for music apps.

Yet another possibility is that Garmin does not allow auto migration to any of the new devices (Fenix 8 / Fenix E / Enduro 3), for whatever reason. I have several very simple data fields, which don't handle drawing their own UI and only return simple data such as a number, so they should be prime candidates for auto migration. None of them have been auto migrated to the latest devices.

So anyway, at least in the past, Garmin would automatically make old apps available for new devices under some (but not all) circumstances.

JBHORNER said:

They should have the ability to remove a restriction that requires developers to update their apps to support new watches that are ostensibly the same. (i.e., create a better SDK)

As much as a I agree with this, I find it ironic considering that some ppl in the forums claim that *existing* CIQ apps must be continuously rebuilt with the latest SDK otherwise *existing* apps will automatically stop working (due to firmware updates).

To be fair, I saw a Garmin support person say exactly that in one of the threads.

It's absolutely not true. Yes, there are rare cases where a firmware update can break apps, but it's not intentional, expected or common, and the fix is usually to either change code in the app or wait for a fix in the firmware, as opposed to simply rebuilding the app with a new SDK.

But it seems that the "conventional wisdom" on the forums is actually the polar opposite of what you're saying. Not only do people not believe that apps should be automatically migrated to newer devices (without the intervention of devs), they also believe that dev need to constantly update their apps for absolutely no reason other than the idea that device firmware updates will necessarily break existing apps.

I'm unsure of the criteria Garmin uses for their auto migration. But, as noted, it's a Garmin thing. I can see them limiting migration abilities if something horrible would happen with an unmodified app between watch platforms.(i.e., kill battery life, lock up the watch, etc.) But minor cosmetic changes, in my mind, shouldn't prevent using an app between devices. If I use an app on a Epix 2 and then go to a pro (I forgot which was first, honestly--I had both--I wanted the light) and there are some things in an app that make it look weird, than it's my choice to not use the app--or suffer with the visual. Then I can have a beef with the publisher.

I've experienced this migration problem time and time again...I've probably had every Garmin smartwatch since the first. (Which I still have tucked into a drawer somewhere--a big drawer as it was a beast.)

I don't think it's Garmin's job to migrate apps at all. I think a user can decide whether they like the app or not on a newer device--provided it doesn't break core functionality of the watch. If an SDK is designed well, it should prevent that from happening provided the developer isn't using some undocumented hook that falls outside of the API.

JBHORNER said:

But minor cosmetic changes, in my mind, shouldn't prevent using an app between devices. If I use an app on a Epix 2 and then go to a pro (I forgot which was first, honestly--I had both--I wanted the light) and there are some things in an app that make it look weird, than it's my choice to not use the app--or suffer with the visual. Then I can have a beef with the publisher.

I'm pretty sure that a change in resolution, display type or color depth will automatically make a new device invalid for auto migration.

Even if you don't mind that an app would look weird, Garmin clearly doesn't want to support that scenario at all.

JBHORNER said:

I don't think it's Garmin's job to migrate apps at all. I think a user can decide whether they like the app or not on a newer device--provided it doesn't break core functionality of the watch.

I see where you're coming from, but clearly Garmin disagrees. I think they want the best user experience possible, so they won't let you use an app that was designed for a different device.

In this past you could manually copy an app PRG from the old device to a new device to do what you're describing, but that's no longer possible for a couple of reasons.

- Ever since music devices came out, PRGs for some app types (especially music apps) were unavailable in the file system (so you can't copy them off the device)

- In the latest updates to newer devices (including still-supported but slightly old devices like FR955), all PRGs are unavailable

- Afaict, also in the latest updates to newer devices, if you copy a PRG from a different kind of device on to the newer device, it doesn't work anymore. This means you can't just grab a PRG from a really old, unsupported device and put it on any recent / currently-supported device. In the past I could put old CIQ watchfaces on my 955 and they worked (some of them looked weird tho), but not anymore.

I'm guessing some of these more recent changes are related to monetization.

FlowState said:

I see where you're coming from, but clearly Garmin disagrees. I think they want the best user experience possible, so they won't let you use an app that was designed for a different device.

I had to chuckle at this, given the challengs I'm having with their current firmware on the Fenix 8 on my arm. To be fair, I expected this. But if their goal is the best user experience possible, they could probably focus on getting closer to that with thier own OS.