why does summary after run sometimes only show Recovery but others Performance combo with vo2max ?

I was of the belief that it only shows you your VO2 max in this situation when it has changed by some amount.

rinserepeat said:

maybe during the beta program when they tinkered with the firstbeat algorithms so vo2max only increases a tiny amount per day

I don't remember which release it was, but the algorithm since then works the same on Fenix 7 and Fenix 6, while they deviated quite a bit before. Congrats on the tiny increases, I only get tiny decreases! :-)

Yeah the new firstbeat vo2max algorithm is a bit strange and stubborn. It's obviously incomplete if not broken/unproven.

The performance condition during an activity is more of a dead-giveaway how "drunk" the watch is.

I often run with +12 or as high as +16 performance condition for an hour and the watch will then only increase vo2max +0.030 never more than +0.040

Previously a full run with +2 performance condition would be enough to increase vo2max a whole point, each +1 PC was basically a half vo2max point

I like how it's being more "careful" now but it's overboard.

This new cycle is post-injury so it is building only +0.030 per day

Before my injury it was 55 vo2max and like you I'd lose about -0.001 to  -0.003 vo2max per day on the new algorithm.

That's with a HRM-Pro for as accurate as possible heart data.

I really really wish they'd support running power meters like Stryd to verify their data, on days with lots of wind my heart has to work harder of course for the same pace but without looking at the watts the watch has no idea that there is wind and thinks I am losing performance, I constantly get LT downgrades on windy days.

https://i.imgur.com/FcqTDg0.png

rinserepeat said:

I constantly get LT downgrades on windy days.

Same here. Annoying, no 'numerical reward' of heroic runs stormy weather.

I think (based on documentation I read long ago) that wind is taken into consideration when you are using an RD Pod (or HRM-Run) and are running with a phone, some weather feedback would get to the RD Pod and affect the power calculation - but that's only power. (I never tested if it actually worked that way).

Why not also take wind into account as a factor affecting running performance? Maybe not a lot of people run with a phone. And weather information is not the actual wind at the actual exact place one is running.

For realtime windspeed, an ANT+ enabled pitot tube worn on one's head (gimbal mounted, has to be straight at all times) would be a great (and perhaps slightly impractical) solution! Pitot tube based power meters existed for bikes. Never got around to buying when they were en vogue, and can't find any affordable ones these days.

I doubt VO2max should jump by +1 on any particular run. Remember that it is an estimate of MAX performance so it should not vary drastically.

You are correct in that regular trained day-to-day should only move vo2max in very tiny amounts if at all.

However when retraining or returning to activity when the watch has completely written off your fitness, it is very typical to have surges while it settles, at least before this beta.

The dead-giveaway that the firstbeat algorithm is not optimal is that an entire run can be done with a performance condition of +16 (sixteen!) and it will only increase vo2max by +0.030

Every +2 PC is roughly +1 vo2max in the old firstbeat algorithm.

For me the watch is clearly sensing ~50 vo2max but doesn't want to give it to me, it's "not impressed" and wants to do it slowly under the new algorithm regardless.\

I'm okay with that but the only problem with +0.030 per day is that means it can't increase more than +1 vo2max per month.

I know I am not vo2max 60 anymore and won't ever be but I also know I am not vo2max 44 either.

It won't give me vo2max 50 for six months at +0.030 per day.

Anyway the new 3rd generation race prediction is much more accurate so I just use that, particularly the half-marathon estimate.

Its hard to know which method is really correct (if any).  4 years ago my VO2MAX peaked at 59 and its now around 53.  I'm over 50 years old but my running paces are still improving - Im now running sub 40 minutes 10k and 1hr 28 mins half marathons which I couldn't get near 4 years ago.  Measuring fitness as a number and predicting race results will never be an exact science.

If Garmin would buy Stryd to get their "Pitot Tube" technology or invent their own it would be AMAZING

The one and only reason I use the stryd is to get the power loss for wind, it really really works (though I doubt it's accurate to decimal places)

Inside the Garmin eco-system there is absolutely no awareness of weather, headwind, etc.

That Garmin post-run HRM-Run/Pod stuff is nonsense, they just look at the overall weather report after the upload

Even the temperature on the Garmin is stupid wrong, I have to select a city 200 miles south of here to get accurate temperatures.

en.wikipedia.org/.../Pitot_tube

rinserepeat said:

Inside the Garmin eco-system there is absolutely no awareness of weather, headwind, etc.

There is. For both of them, and it is not processed post-run. It is processed in real-time based on the weather data available on the watch, which normally means weather data not older than 20 minutes. Assuming you are not one of those unlucky persons for whom the weather data comes from a distant station and not matching your location well.

Some reading about t is available here:

• How Does Wind Factor in When Using the Garmin Running Power Apps? | Garmin Customer Support
• Enabling or Disabling Wind Adjustment Setting in Garmin Running Power Apps | Garmin Customer Support
• What Is Heat and Altitude Performance Acclimation? | Garmin Customer Support

trux said:

It is processed in real-time based on the weather data available on the watch,

Confirmed. Just tested with a run with 2 Fenixes and an RD pod, one Fenix paired with a phone. Headwind mostly. The one with the phone connection reported higher power than the one without, as expected. Normally they report the same (when running without a phone).