Deleting activity doesn't reduce load, intensity minutes, recovery time, nothing (Physio TrueUp broken?)

Physio True Up is now called Unified Training Status. It’s no longer on the devices and only accessible through Connect, as you identified.

You’re correct about the old status being unable to be cleared when there’s an error. It’s been like that since 2017 when I submitted errors with incorrect HR. It makes a poor ecosystem and an obvious thing to remedy.

Add to your scenario things like an imported activity doesn’t receive a calculation of training status. Also a manually added activity doesn’t count. Having had a number of device replacements, I lose about 10 days of training status, steps etc despite uploading activities with GPS / HR data, some of which were tracked on HRM Pro connected to a Suunto Watch and Map My Fitness app. 

I’ve suggested they fix the import issue, incorrect HR data and also they should allow a manual activity to use the existing device data for the exercise duration (like Fitbit). There is a FitFile Tools app that will trim HR peaks during error so technically everything discussed works but just needs it to be applied

rinserepeat said:

The watch is left with the previous load the deleted activity generated, the intensity minutes the deleted activity generated, the recovery time the deleted activity generated?

That metric is not depending on the activity data. Intensity minutes are being calculated by your watch in real time using the HR data available at the moment. Whether you record an activity or not is unimportant (apart of having access to the HRM strap, if you use one), hence deleting the activity later is irrelevant to the IM data already processed.

And it is similar with other metrics. Most of the general metrics is being stored in separate files, not in the activity FIT file, so deleting the activity will have no impact. If you want to delete that data, you'd need to delete the data on the Daily Summary page of Garmin Connect Web. Just be aware that it would delete also data like Steps, Calories, Sleep, etc. 

So... I trusted that this comment was accurate and went ahead and deleted a duplicate activity (I recorded an outdoor ride on both my Epix Pro and my Wahoo head unit.  I recorded it on the Epix only because I wanted training load, intensity factor, etc, that you can't get by recording activities outside the Garmin ecosystem... but it for some reason didn't connect to my power meter.  The Wahoo record was complete so for a short time both were in Garmin Connect -- the Garmin one with the special metrics and the Wahoo one with power.  I deleted the Garmin one because I really care about the power ... and it deleted the intensity minutes, the training load and intensity factor.

I don't think this parent comment is accurate any longer, at least not for Epix Pro activities.

eitally said:

and it deleted the intensity minutes, the training load and intensity factor.

I don't think this parent comment is accurate any longer, at least not for Epix Pro activities.

I am not aware than anything changed, and am unable to replicate the effect you describe.

Could you make a screenshot of the Intensity Minutes Daily Timeline graph, then import back the activity that you deleted (you can still find it in the folder //GARMIN/Activity/ on the watch), and making another screenshot after the import with the added IMs, then deleting it again from Garmin Connect, and making a 3rd screenshot with the IMs removed again? It would be interesting to see whether the IMs change after each operation. It does not happen on my side - the daily IMs stay the same regardless whether I delete or add an activity. 

After reading your reply, I believe I slightly misspoke in my post.  The IMs stay on the watch even after deleting the activity.  But, when I look in Garmin Connect (either on mobile or web), I lose all the metrics associated with training readiness & load.  When I added the activity, my TL went up to about 1400, and as soon as I deleted it, it went back down to about 1150.  If I'm being honest, I don't really care about intensity minutes, but I do care quite a bit about training load, intensity factor and training balance (anaerobic / aerobic / base).

The annoyance of dealing with things like this is eventually going to see me purchase a Garmin head unit, since that (or using a watch) as the primary activity data source is the only way to get these metrics.

(apologies for lack of screenshots -- I just don't want to spend that much time on this)

you aren't imagining it

I cannot remember if the behavior is improved at all on the newer betas for the Fenix6

I did notice last week that my intensity minutes on the watch were correct as it went over 900 but then later that day after both a usb sync and bluetooth sync, garmin connect did not have the correct intensity minutes for the week so it's still sketchy

the problem is Garmin does it all in a very convoluted way because of backwards legacy situations

I don't think it is too much for users to expect easy consistency across all garmin devices but to do that they might have to retool the firmware for their entire line

being a garmin dev must be intense

The things that are done on the watch stay on the watch, but my problem from the outset was that my power meter didn't connect to my watch so the only piece of this I got from the Garmin activity was the intensity minutes since that's based on HR.  Without the power data, none of the rest is possible.  I do have power in the Wahoo-tracked version of the activity and ended up deleting the Garmin activity from Connect and just keeping the Wahoo one, because I care a lot about the power profile of the activity (it was a 3hr ride with 5000' of climbing).

The problem is that Garmin either can't or doesn't calculate the intensity/power related stuff for anything not recorded on one of their devices, *except* in two circumstances: Zwift, TrainerRoad and the Tacx app (https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2021/06/garmin-training-status-now-includes-zwift-trainerroad-the-sufferfest-and-tacx-app-workouts.html).

My complaint is that if Garmin *can* do this, then clearly there isn't any hard & fast hardware-related rule that forces Training Effect, Intensity Factor, etc, to be calculated on the Garmin device, so why can't they just open this capability to Wahoo (and Hammerhead and anyone else following the appropriate spec)?

eitally said:

so why can't they just open this capability to Wahoo (and Hammerhead and anyone else following the appropriate spec)?

They do. As you told yourself, there is a number of 3rd party apps doing that. Besides Zwift, TrainerRoad, and Tacx (Tacx actually not being 3rd party), it is also Concept2, Rouvy, and possibly also some others. I recommend contacting Hammerhead, and suggesting them to apply at Garmin for the certification, and to comply to the standards Garmin requires in order to make their data compatible too. Garmin cannot do it for them.

BTW, why you do not simply connect the powermeter to your Garmin device, and record the activity with it? You can continue using the 3rd party app, but there is then no need to sync the activity from the 3rd party to GC, when the activity is already recorded by the Garmin device.