Fenix 6 pro Trailrun Activity with 14.72 Beta

until you realize, that on trail running you will get lower vo2max because of the nature of trailrunning - then you will be happy to deactivate it :-)

This is actually great news, it shows that there is finally some movement to the rather limited and rigid approach Garmin has had to this earlier.

I wonder if they'll include this option on Treadmill running w/ footpod as well.
The recent introduction of pairing indoor rowers as power meter indicates some movement in that area also.

Fingers crossed!

I hope it wont be just in beta, i hope it will become permament. And i wish more activities would get vo2max. Trail running is a good start. I like to run on trails more than on asphalth.

I wouldn’t discount that Garmin has tried to develop a way to do this (which, as someone who almost exclusively trail runs, I appreciate).

As has been mentioned, FirstBeat’s algorithm for VO2max apparently was already factoring in altitude (see more here, including comments from a FirstBeat employee: https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/running-multisport/f/forerunner-945/162578/altitude-adjusted-vo2-max).

And maybe relevant also is their MTB Grit metric, which could potentially be adapted to something like this as part of an algorithm.

I also thought trail run VO2max was listed in a change log on one of the last few software updates but I can’t seem to find record of that (maybe it was that Runalyze started to show values a while back).

Finally, I understand the challenges of doing this, which are akin to some the discussion around running power.

Separately, I think there’s a greater chance of Garmin seeing feedback on betas if posted in the beta thread instead of as a separate thread.

comparing two tracks on road - one hilly and one flat - you will always get a worse vo2max on the hilly track (same pace), at least with the current implementation. Even if there is some basic integration of factoring in heightmeters.

acousticbiker said:

maybe it was that Runalyze started to show values a while back)

I think it was that - it's stored in more than one place in the file and it looked as though they were recording per-activity values for trail that were not being factored into the watch record. There was some discussion at the time about what was going on and whether it was Garmin collecting data to analyze  the relationship between trail and road VO2max in the same runner. If that's so, there'd be some compensation for surface built in, though it would definitely be an average between the equivalent of "good going" on a racecourse and surfaces like chalk in the rain, deep mud, and rocks.

My file value (the two decimal place one that Runalyze displays) from yesterday looked right in line with the road values from earlier in the week - it was longer which tends to push the number down, flat, and mixed between cycle paths and ankle deep mud which would go both ways.

What would REALLY be interesting to know is, if this new feature is "just" an option to activate the same algorithm as running activity to estimate VO2max (which I'm pretty sure already takes ascent & descent in consideration, same as strava also has its algorithm to calculate grade adjusted pace), or if there is a new algorithm which accounts for new parameters.

My idea about this is, the more variables you include in the formula, the more difficult it is to get an accurate result. And to be honest I am quite curious about this, since two trail runners with the same VO2max can run the same trail route at very different paces and time :)

But at the end of the day, whether you report a VO2max from ta trail run activity or not, the activity will still affect your VO2max.

VO2max will be affected by every activity you do so it really does not matter whether you run, bike, hike, or under water basket weave.

Your body does not choose which activity to preferentially respond to..

I enabled VO2 estimation for Trail run.  I ran 11 km in my local trails, lot of snow, -5 degrees Celsius, did 350 elevation meters, 79% average HR, performance condition -7 in the end :-) so I assume the algorhytm is not adjusted to trail running, but its the same as for road running.

I think this feature makes sense for those who run only trails to get the training status updated. Those who run both road and trails will probably get always lower VO2 estimation on hilly runs so they training status will be productive (probably) on road and unproductive when hitting trails. 

cheers

Garmin has had VO2Max disabled for trail runs since their Fenix 3 series. I know that because i had one before and during that period, it was decided to disable it for Trail runs because the variation in terrain and hills and such really messes up the value. Trail runs are also the most appropriate activity type to choose of you are running Obstacle course runs with obstacles, mud and other activities that will for sure give you really strange VO2Max results.

It has since then been turned of for Trail run activity, so I find it strange if they would change it without notice.

For me it sounds more like a bug.