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Delays in speed and pace makes it impossible to follow suggested sprint workout with Fenix 6X Pro Solar version 12.10 RC

AndersB
over 4 years ago

I have posted some other threads about the delays in speed and pace on my Fenix 6X Pro Solar (software version is now 12.10 RC).

Today I tried to follow the suggested workout which was a Sprint workout called "3x3x0:[email protected]/h 55:00". Se picture:

The estimated benefit was like this:

I followed the instructions on the watch and ended up with this training effect result which I thought was strange... I noticed that the speedometer had really long delays while running.

 

I logged in to Garmin Connect on the web to look at the training and especially the pace diagram which shows targeted pace vs the watch pace. And there it is, the delays are there and mess up the interval training. The gray is targeted speed and the blue line is the pace that the watch shows. Several seconds delays. See this picture:

And if we look at the statistics for each interval we can see that the pace is totally wrong...

Garmin, please fix this...

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to LJSkywalker74
    LJSkywalker74 said:
    The thing with 3D Distance/Speed is that it wasn't really meant for any of the regular activities such as running, even though Garmin states that you can turn it on for those activities

    This old thread seems to support this. 

    forums.garmin.com/.../when-should-i-use-3d-speed

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to Alex

    Today, for the first time. But I want take a rest :-/.

  • 0 over 4 years ago

    I didn't take a rest and tried the Anaerobic suggested workout. I should get 3.3 and 3.3 TE but I get 3.0 and 2.3. Maybe because of a bit slower pace at some intervals. Anaeroboc score I get 0.5/1.0/1.5/1.7/1.9 and then I think 0.1 increase for each next interval.

    Track Run function for 200m oval is not good. I'll try it on another one, but there isn't any. I got 7.690m instead of 7.600m. It's almost half lap! Next time, I'll try normal run on the 200m oval.

    connect.garmin.com/.../5754352412

  • 0 over 4 years ago

    "Anaerobic Training Effect calculation in short:


    • The greater the impact of training activities on anaerobic
    metabolism, the higher the Anaerobic Training Effect.
    • The higher the rate of acceleration and intensity of the interval the higher the amount of anaerobic work performed.
    • Short duration intervals elicit higher amounts of anaerobic
    work than long intervals.
    • Recovery level before the start of the interval affects the
    amount of anaerobic work.
    • Intervals performed when already fatigued elicit a lower
    anaerobic effect than those performed in a fresh state."

    From Firstbeat aTE white papier.

    Hope it will help some users

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to Alex

    Thanks Former Member! The delays of speed and pace then clearly have impact on the anaerobic score on these short intervals. Garmin needs to fix that to get the suggested workouts to work as expected. Have read in swedish forums that more people have seen the same results that i have seen for a while. 

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to AndersB

    I have sent an email to the beta team

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to Alex

    Great! But its not an beta issue now. The problem is in 12.20 also. I have reported the delays for a long time ago, no solution yet. 

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to Alex

    The points you've mentioned are beyond dispute.

    But where is mentioned in the paper that a delay (shift) of 10 sec between a suggested workout and the real workout has an effect on anaerobic TE? Fig. 8A in this paper depicts not a suggested workout, but the "Theoretical VO2 based on speed".

    Important is not the start of the workout, but the speed and duration. If there is a delay at start of the workout due to smoothing, the same delay is also at the end of the workout. That means it's only a shift and you may start the workout 10 sec earlier. Try it and look what happens.

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to subra

    What everyone appears to be overlooking too is that nobody will instantaneously change pace. The acceleration will differ for different people. I believe that Garmin's estimates of training load are based on a step change in pace - going from say 7 min/km to 5min/km instantly. Not going to happen for anyone. Ever. Same applies for slowing down. So there will always be a lag. 

    Granted this lag can be exacerbated if there is averaging in Garmin's algorithms but until an individual reaches a steady state pace, the algorithm is chasing a moving target.

    My 0.02c worth? if you're trying to chase a specific pace for a 10 to 15s sprint effort then you're doing it wrong if you're trying to 'game; the system by anticipating the start of the sprint interval. A 10s to 15s sprint should be close to all out effort because by the time you get going, it's time to slow down. Anticipating the sprint is not the way to follow sprint workouts.