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How to improve the Garmin experience and coaches for beginners - Suggestions

Former Member
Former Member

I bought a Fenix 6 pro 7 months ago to finally get some motivation to start running and life healthier. Since then, I'm still running 3-4 times a week and lost 8 kg - so thank you Garmin!

But as a beginner that wasn't aware of different paces, lactate threshold and heart rate zones, I find the whole Garmin experience confusing and sometimes even dangerous. So I decided to write down my two biggest gripes / suggestions in the hope this will make the watches even better in the future.

-  The adaptive training plans are not adaptive and even dangerous - if you are a beginner and think that these plans will take care of you, adapt to your performance and help you learn about smart training, you are wrong. The paces that the plan has assigned to me after the test run were way to hard and it never adapted to my real level even though my heart rate was constantly in zone 4-5 even during easy runs. First I thought that this must be how you get fit  but at one point I had to stop the plan because I started getting "heart stutters" and I forced myself into reading about proper training science. In retroperspective I might have chosen an unrealistic time goal or I entered a too strong average pace when Garmin asks you for these values, but as there were no further explanations in the app and I doubt that a beginner understands about different paces or what a realistic training goal could be, you enter what sounds right and trust that Garmin "adapts".

--> I really think that an adaptive, smart, central "Garmin Coach Buddy" that oversees all your metrics and provides you training suggestions is the way to go, but it needs to be way better than the current coaches. Why not also take sleep quality and stress levels during the day as further metrics to adapt your training or even ask to do a HRV test before a suggested hard exercise? Also in my experience, if I had a high Stress score during the day even if I'm not moving a lot, my performance when running will be quite bad. I'm sure that there is tons of science that is just waiting to be used. Also I found that for beginners, Heart Rate based suggestions are way easier to understand and follow than pace suggestions as your body might still not be ready to run even slow paces because you need to develop your running muscles first to adhere to a pace without having your heart rate all over the place. But for pace, at least use the heart rate metrics to adapt the pace suggestions.

- Help the user to understand and set their correct personalized metrics and zones - What I mean here is: All current Garmin metrics like VO2max, training effect and other statistics rely on the correct settings for heart rate zones, Max Heart rate, lactate threshold and/or training paces. The problem is, if you are a beginner, you have no idea what you are doing and the watch let's you train with completely wrong zones without making you aware or helping you understanding the importance of it. E.g. after researching the importance of low aerob (or heart rate 2) training, I forced myself to "run" with my ridiculous low default heart zones for over 3 months. Only after reading an article about Max Heartrate I setup a manual workout myself and found out, that my Max Heart Rate is 10+ beats higher than Garmins default MaxHR setting. Then I bought a heartrate strap for the (a bit hidden) lactate threshold test and look at this, my training zones are completely different with these metrics, but I wasted 3 months walking on my easy runs and feeling completely bored during tempo runs. Why is the watch not guiding me through these processes first before letting me train inefficient? 

--> I really like the Lactate Threshold Test and I believe there should be more of these, like a MaxHR test, Easy Run Pace tests or maybe a combined assessment that really helps you getting your zones setup correctly. Maybe Garmin can expand the automatic gathered metrics and suggest efficient training paces in the same way as it does with lactate treashold. And in addition it could also suggest average race paces for 5k, 10k, HM, and M races. Also it would be great if there would be a page on Garmin connect that presents all (automatic) measured metrics and suggestions at one place instead of having to dig around in multiple menus. I'm sure it would also be fun to see improvements e.g. in the suggested easy pace instead of just having VO2max as the only metric that sometimes gives very different results for slow runs and tempo runs.

Again, it's a great watch but in the end I had to read through a lot of training articles to understand that the default experience on Garmin for beginners can be way off and even counter productive. I have more but this is already too long, so I leave it for now.. 

Not sure if you experience was different but I'm interested what you guys think...

Also it would be great to have a forum for questions and suggestions for the unified Garmin Experience and not 342 different forums for the many different watches, all having the same problems ;) 

  • Former Member
    0 Former Member over 4 years ago

    Woah this community is brutal. But anyways, thanks for the feedback. It seems that the general tone is that the watch is meant as a tool and you need to educate yourself instead of relaying on the watch to tell you what to do. 

    Maybe that's true, I just feel it's a missed opportunity because all the ingrediencies are already here to provide an easier and more newbie-friendly experience. It just doesn't really guides you through the process of setting your zones up correctly or testing for some important metrics that can be very wrong by the default settings. 

    Also to all the people advising me to train first for 10 years before already writing suggestions - it is exactly my point to make the watch easier for beginners without needing 10 years of experience to correctly Interpret it.

    Also thanks to the nice fellow that pointed me to the latest beta that might already incorporate some of the features I mentioned - in the most pleasant way possible...

  • Former Member
    0 Former Member over 4 years ago in reply to Former Member
    Noobs need to run in the first and second heart rate zones for 4 years.

    My point is that it would be great if the watch would be more proactive in helping you get the zones correct as the default calculation based on 220-age can be very wrong. I see the watch as a coach that helps you getting the right metrics that work for you by guiding you through the right tests instead of leaving you to figure out everything yourself while you train less than ideal.

    Or maybe just put a flyer with your statement in every box that comes with the watch...

  • To provide another opinion: I somewhat agree with your analysis. To keep an advantage in the 'race' with brands like Apple, but also newcomers like Coros, the platform is crucial. You can't beat Apple in hardware development. You can't beat Chinese companies on pricing. What remains is using the sports' specific knowledge that Garmin and Firstbeat have in providing more and more useful data and analysis than competitors.
    Garmin already has the best platform for this, but the gap is closing (fast). This is probably the reason for Garmin taking over Firstbeat. So far so good.

    However, I partially agree with your analysis. There is useful data and analysis and the platform provides some useful advice. However, it doesn't feel as smart/adaptive and easily accessible as it can be. If Garmin can truly make it feel like you have a personal coach guiding you in every step you take and goal you pursue, they can make themselves far more valuable to beginning and experienced athletes than they already are.

  • Former Member
    0 Former Member over 4 years ago in reply to marcelvos1987
    If Garmin can truly make it feel like you have a personal coach

    I 100% agree with your post. That's exactly what I feel will be the future of these watches. 

  • Yup

    The suggested workouts that take in account your needs (types of energy systems to stressed) for general health fitness vs your capacity (recovery).

    Now if they want make it better: 

    1.Add objective (what do you want/ need)

    2.Add the available time(when how much)

    3.Add preferences (what types of activities you like)

    4. Add the best optical sensor available since all these metrics are based on it

    Now we would have a tippy top watch

  • Yikes. Some of the comments to the OP are brutal but dam, made me laugh a little too. I actually enjoyed reading the post and as a newcomer to Garmin myself, quite agree. Though, i have resolved myself to endlessly searching the forums and reading the guides but yes, sometimes the data is hard to interpret. Good job on getting fitter. Thats the whole reason I switched to Garmin from Samsung's ecosystem. The fenix 6 is a great motivator tool for me.

  • I agree with the bit about the max HR.  I remember one time I finished a run and was completely knackered and my watch gave me some "underperforming" score on Training Effect.  Then I adjusted my max HR and ran the same level of exertion the next week and got a "5" on training effect (ie, too hard, which I suspected).  It'd be nice if the watch adjusted your max HR zones after it got to know you a little better, and to be honest I thought I played around with that feature a few years ago but I don't know if it exists or my brain is shorting out.  I don't actually care about them anymore. I've been recovering from surgery on my achilles and am just happy to run far enough for my watch to generate a map with a curve in it!

    You are also correct on another aspect: the training plans on the watch are rough, at best.  Actually a lot of apps and devices have trainiing plans and I don't know if ANY of them are worth anything.  Maybe they are better than printed training plans you'd find in a magazine.  Maybe.  They might be better than a C25K plan you'd find online.  But they are basically marketing gimmicks.  Unfortunately, you had to learn the hard way Disappointed

    However some people do get results.  See this blog for examples.

    www.myrunnerslife.com/.../

  • I think you are largely CORRECT, the Garmin the Firstbeat analytics are designed around a ton of assumed knowledge and the algorithms are tuned using serious and elite athletes in the 20 - 40 year old range. Beginners, "senior" athletes, people with compromised cardiovascular systems, etc, have different needs and respond differently to training.

    Over time I feel these tools will improve to target more people. Historically Garmin has not kept their older devices up-to-date as they introduce new algorithms. I am pleased that the devices released in 2019 have been updated in 2020.  I hope this will continue even after Garmin introduces the next generation of devices and will help maintain their market share as there will be less incentive to jump-ship if the older devices are updated.

  • 4 years of HR zone 2. Biggest *** I read in quite a while.