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Training load and recovery time really low after full day of hiking (compared to running)

Ben
over 4 years ago

Here is something that really puzzles me: The training load seems way off for hiking activities compared to running for example.

Scenario 1: I am hiking all day, 15km in strenuous terrain, 1000m up, 1000m down, 7h walking time, 25 degrees (more in the sun). Training load according to Garmin: 18, revovery time of 3h.

Scenario 2: I am running 8km in the park, moderate pace of 5:20. Training load: 120, recovery time 20h.

Something is very wrong here. The hiking activity is MUCH more strenuous than the jog in the park. I understand that it is (partially?) based on heart rate (which is surely higher when running then when hiking), but still? Shouldnt other factors (like altitude meters covered, time and distance) also play a role?

  • 0 over 4 years ago

    According to my experience it is based solely on HR. If you do not get HR elevated enough - load and recovery times are quite pointless.

    1 hour cardio (in zone 3) ~90 load and ~24h recovery

    1 hour cardio (in zone 4) ~120 load and 24-36h recovery

    1 hour of weightlifting (compound lifts+some bodyweight) 10-20 load and 2-4h recovery

  • 0 over 4 years ago

    Firstbeat is nearly 100% dependant on HR to determine exercise load, consequently, hiking is given short-shrift.

    One way to partially hack this is to create custom HR zones and assign them to the hiking activity.  I have done this to make my HR zone 1 and 2 for hiking significantly lower than the zones I use for biking and running. To some degree you are subverting the Firstbeat algorithm by doing this though.

    As far as the science goes, there are very few studies investigating long endurance efforts at low HR impacting VO2 Max, but as far as I know, these have only been done on a handful of hikers doing things like AT or Pacific Crest over the course of months and obviously that research has not made it into the tracking algorithms used by Garmin.

  • 0 over 4 years ago

    Just curious, are you using a chest heart rate strap for the hiking?

    Training Load as calculated by the Firstbeat Analytics is based on EPOC which according to a paper written by Firstbeat they calculate using heart rate, %VO2max (and maybe respiration rate).  So, as you mention, heart rate is key.  I am not an exercise scientist by any means, it appears that they are focusing on cardiovascular load vs. neuromuscular effort, hence the importance of heart rate.

    That all said, I asked about the chest heart rate strap because several people have noted that the optical heart rate seems to not work correctly when using the hiking activity.  To test this out, instead of using “Hike” during your next hike, use “Trail Run” since this will not affect your VO2max and see if that gives you closer to what you would expect for a training load.

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to ericgottlieb

    Thanks for the good explanation and the tip re. the trail running profile (will try that next time).

    I was not wearing a heart strap, no. I was hiking for six hard and long days, exhausted every evening - and had a 7 day training load of 87 after the week. Pretty weird, considering that active calories per day were around 2000.

    As for the custom HR zones just for hiking - think I might give this one a miss. Might mess up other things and have some unforeseeable sight-effects I am afraid of.

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to iLikePotatoes
    iLikePotatoes said:
    load and recovery times are quite pointless.

    I was just replying to another post about training status and found this about FirstBeat's recovery times.  I assumed it was based just on the workout completed, but it isn't.

    3. RECOVERY

    Recovery is calculated based on the average of the three most recent Quick Recovery Test (QRT) measurements. For recovery to be applied to Training Status, at least three QRT’s must have taken place within the last 14 days. More recent QRT’s are weighted to have more importance. When recovery is ‘good’, the body is responding well to training and the risk for overuse injuries is at its lowest.

    I have more info for anyone interested posted here:

    https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/running-multisport/f/forerunner-945/235118/understanding-recovery-time

  • 0 over 4 years ago

    OHR for hiking does not work as expected (check the forum for hiking hr issues). It shows so low HR that apparently results in low load. Send Garmin support email otherwise they will never fix the hiking.

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to tapuzzo

    Are you sure that Firstbeat algorithm takes into account how the user is setting the HR zones? This would be strange as there is no recommendation for how to set those properly! What % of max HR is Zone 1? Should it be relative to max HR or lactate threshold? Everyone is setting these zones differently.

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to Marbuel

    As far I know: No

    Only take in to account max HR

    In my case

    Max HR:185

    low intemsity training:HR below 147 you can go above for brief moments.

    Anaerobic training: changes in HR the key is gradient

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to jose.cboliveira
    jose.cboliveira said:
    Only take in to account max HR

    This is my understanding as well.

    The FB algorithms looks at %HRmax to determine intensity level, possibly with some contribution of %LT as well (if set).

    How you choose to define the different pulse zones on the other hand does not affect the performance metrics.

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to SAHO

    This makes sense. FB should use their own determination of max HR and LT. Not what I set there.