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VO2 Max - does rowing machine contribute?

RASCOTT1970
over 4 years ago

Hi all

I have a Concept 2 indoor rower with PM5.  I do not run or use a bike with a power meter.

I noticed today a VO2 Max reading with "Wednesday" on it, on my Fenix 6 pro. On Wednesday I did a row.  On the app I see my VO2 Max has been registering since I got the watch in July.

Does this mean that the rowing is contributing to a VO2 Max reading?  I thought it was only running or cycling with a power meter that contrubuted to a VO2 Max reading.

thanks

  • 0 over 4 years ago

    Hi Rascott, are you using the "rowing" activity ?

    This activity is not able to connect to concept 2 rowers (no support for the Fe-C ant+ profile...), so it won't measure any distance, what, etc, only your HR.

    Calculating or "guesstimating" vo2max in those conditions, is impossible, so it can't be it.

    With that said :

    - the watch, is "guesstimating" vo2max when you walk, if you don't run/bike, that's possibly better than nothing, never had this displayed as I run, it could be what happened to you.

    - there is 2 other applications : ergIq (https://apps.garmin.com/en-US/apps/2fc7c56b-f7f8-4fc4-b92e-8d3bde99f693) and ak concept 2 https://apps.garmin.com/en-US/apps/9a0508b9-0256-4639-88b3-a2690a14ddf9) (exist as a field or full app) :

      they are able to use fe-C to extract data from your concept2 (pm5 required), in particular : speed/cadence/watts/distance. Those fields are NOT native fields, so the activity will still look to be zero km.

    up to recently, firstbeat confirmed, that their technology was able to calculate vo2max for specific exercise (which is pretty easy on a rower, such formula exist and are much more precise than for running), but garmin wasn't feeding non native fields into the vo2max calculation.

    With firstbeat being now part of garmin, it's quite possible that this will be supported approaches in the future. We also see that fe-c support exist on bike computers, and start to appears in the last beta of the 945/fenix 6, even if not fully functionning right now, so... let's cross fingers that one day, we will have the embeded application doing it's magic with concept 2 rowers ! Slight smile

    hope that helps a bit, and may point to what happened to you, with walking :)

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to Klick
    Klick said:
    This activity is not able to connect to concept 2 rowers (no support for the Fe-C ant+ profile...

    The latest beta  for the Forerunner 945 includes F-EC (at least for indoor bikes). I'm not sure how far this has got into the Fenix betas yet, or whether it includes support for rowers.

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to Klick

    I hope that full integration of Concept2 data will finally happen. With VO2 max estimate and other metrics. Please!! I'm waiting for this for 4years now ...

  • 0 over 4 years ago

    As others have said, it does not. But if you don't have running or cycling VO2 Max estimate, the watch will sometimes compute estimate just from the day to day use. I don't think this is very accurate, and I don't know details. Once you get running/cycling VO2 Max, this will never happen.

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to Klick

    ah yes of course that makes sense. I was forgetting that my C2 data doesnt go anywhere near Garmin Connect.  (I know it is an option for C2 to feed into GC but I prefer to use the watch rowing activity so that the other training status data is provided.)

    I'm not to concened about C2 integration, preferring to use the watch. Surely if running can be used to estimate a VO2 Max score then the rowing activity (plus a HRM either chest strap or wrist) could as well.  I assume the main input from running is HRM data.

    So - as you say , my VO2 Max score must be from just going dor a walk with the dog.

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to Marbuel

    it would be good to have the option - i prefer using the watch even for rowing as its nice to have all the other workout analysis (recovery time etc)

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to jsla7527

    I must have had a really good walk on Wednesday as its given me a top end of "Good" VO2 Max and a fitness age of 31 (I'm 50).  I have never used a power meter on the bike (I am a mountain biker) and I stopped running in April 2017 due to an injury.  Maybe there is some running data from 3 years ago that is feeding my VO2 Max score...

    Come to think of it, in late July I was walking on the Scottish mountains for a week. 5 days at 8 or 9 hour each day using the "Hike" activity - perhaps that has also helped generate the score.

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to RASCOTT1970

    that's a false statement ;)

    The garmin row app is the one providing the LEAST data.

    using for example garmin iq, will provide you with EVERYTHING that the garmin app provide you (hrm, recovery, training status, etc) + rower data in non native fields, so you can track progress ! Runalyze is specially great for this.

    so no reason up to now to use the garmin native app, the fe-c support may change this indeed, but it is still not that great.

    hope you can try it, you'll be convinced soon :)

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to RASCOTT1970

    The input for running VO2 Max is HRM and pace. They basically analyse how hard your heart is working (in relative terms to your MHR or maybe LTHR pace) to achieve given pace and base VO2 Max on that. So for rowing, they'd have to first integrate with C2 monitor to get 500m pace or maybe watts into the watch and then use that in conjunction with HR to give you VO2 Max. The extra catch with rowing is that running is weight bearing sport, so the pace data comes to certain degree already normalized to your weight (and VO2 Max is in ml/kg of body weight) while in rowing, the absolute value of power would have to be normalized by the algorithm, based on your input weight - but I assume they're already doing something similar for biking. 

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to Klick
    Klick said:
    so no reason up to now to use the garmin native app, the fe-c support may change this indeed, but it is still not that great.

    Unless you want to see your training effect and load in real time, during the exercise. Which I kind of like. And only way to do that is to set up extra screen in the native app. I kind of gave up on having real data in Connect, I use it for training effect, edit the distance after the session and that's about it. Real data is in concept 2 log.

    Nor sure about FE-C. I tried it with 10.78 and while it will pair with PM5, that's the only thing it will do.