Product Quality Vs Commercial Reality

Former Member
Former Member

I am a relatively new Garmin owner.

Bought THREE Fenix 6's (2 Pro & 1 Sapphire all X's) and returned.

I have two 6X Sapphires due today and hopefully will choose the best with no blue screen or button issues.

Whilst this is a major ballache, at the same time, playing devils advocate, I do understand why these issues arise.

Products are getting more and more complicated with more scope for screw ups. Range Rovers are relatively expensive, have a ton of bells and whistles, yet you look at the reviews and they also have a ton of issues. For a vehicle of that cost its ridiculous.

However if you are a manufacturer trying to constantly innovate. Trying to beat the competition. Trying to remain commercially viable.

What are you going to do?

In business you come first (thats what she said) or undercut.

To come first speed is of the essence and this will inevitably mean getting the product out asap, acknowledging (internally) that there will be a host of issues, then working through those issues post-launch.

If the product on the whole is better than the competition, consumers will stick around and work through the issues (Garmin and Apple spring to mind). If not they fall.

From my limited experience I have found that Fenix 6 is without doubt unparalleled in terms of capability (my main use is utilising navigation for running).and aesthetically looks better than anything else out there (from my perspective of course) which is why I am sticking around.

Would I like a product that works as it should?

Of course and who knows if I have any more issues I may throw in the towel. However I also appreciate the commercial realities of selling a product like this and remaining at the top of the tree in a very competitive industry. Unfortunately QC and product testing will not and cannot be conducted to the ideal degree.

Thoughts?

  • Finally, how many F6's have been sold so far? 300 000? 500 000? Garmin sells about 10 million watches a year, so 3-500 000 F6's seem reasonable. At least 50% of smartwatch buyers know a thing or two about the Internet and can find this forum in minutes if they have problems. Yet as far as I can tell, there doesn't seem to be a high percentage of complaints. I didn't do the math but I'd be surprised if there are 100 people on this forum complaining about their F6. To me that indicates bad watches, or physiological differences that make the sensors inaccurate for some people (different wrists, not enough  wrist fat, too much wrist fat, weird blood vessels, etc). 

    To be fair, I know of exactly one other person who owns a F6, and their HR monitor is also way off during activities. They just don't care enough to come to this forum or contact Garmin.

    And the idea that WHR aren't accurate is just purely false. As I mentioned before, no one expects them to an EKG, but they should be close. And competitive watches are. I am assuming your activity is running? Then yeah, its pretty good. Anything like interval training, even without wrist flex, forget about it. Or even something skiing or hiking for that matter. 

  • But that's always been known to be the case

    SUUNTO: 

    https://www.suunto.com/Support/Product-support/suunto_9/suunto_9/getting-started/optical-heart-rate/

    "

    • Arm movements and flexing muscles, such as gripping a tennis racket, can change the accuracy of the sensor readings.
    • When your heart rate is low, the sensor may not be able to provide stable readings. A short warm up of a few minutes before you start the recording helps.
    • Skin pigmentation and tattoos block light and prevent reliable readings from the optical sensor.
    • The optical sensor may not provide accurate heart rate readings for swimming activities.
    • For higher accuracy and quicker responses to changes in your heart rate, we recommend using a compatible chest heart rate sensor such as Suunto Smart Sensor.
    WARNING:

    The optical heart rate feature may not be accurate for every user during every activity. Optical heart rate may also be affected by an individual’s unique anatomy and skin pigmentation. Your actual heart rate may be higher or lower than the optical sensor reading."

    POLAR:

    https://www.polar.com/blog/optical-heart-rate-tracking-polar/

    "There are more options for sensor placement with OHR: on the wrist or on the upper or lower arm (with Polar OH1) for sports where the sensor placement might hinder your movement or performance. Examples that come to mind are bench pressing, volleyball or racquet sports. In some situations, it’s better to track your heart rate from the arm (Polar OH1) rather than your wrist (wrist-based HR) because some movements or exercises put a strain on your wrist and tendons (such as pull-ups) which in turn can affect the quality of the signal. These physiological constrains can be solved by taking advantage of the versatility of optical heart rate tracking and the placement of the sensor.

    Here’s a seemingly bold statement from the pioneers of wearable sports technology (it’s less bold when we dig deeper into it): optical heart rate tracking is more prone to errors than chest-strap based heart rate.

    Before you call the press (or tweet them), here’s what that means: it’s easier to get erroneous measurements from an optical heart rate sensor than it is to get erroneous measurements from a chest strap HR sensor. There are ways you can cheat an optical heart rate sensor – for whatever reason – simply by constricting blood flow to the measurement location. And even if you’re not consciously trying to confuse the OHR sensor, there are occasions during which you might do so inadvertently (for example by wearing the OHR sports watch on the same hand that grips the tennis racket or wearing two fitness trackers side-by-side on the same wrist)."

    And I know someone else with a F6 and they agree with me it's ok. Anecdotal isn't useful.

  • Anecdotal isn't useful

     

    Just a test of the 24/7 WHR values ​​(therefore not carried out as an activity):
    left f6x WHR right f5x WHR. Comparison device Garmin Edge coupled with chest strap.

  • And again - anecdotal isn't useful because one in a few million. 

  • Press Start
    Just a test of the 24/7 WHR values ​​(therefore not carried out as an activity)
  • Same here. Early adopter. 

    Bought the 29th of August in a shop in Paris. 

    Fenix 6 titanium with orange strap. 

    Zero issue and black screen. 

    Not one issue. 

    It was not the same story with my 5X and 5X plus..... Blue screen... A lot of issue, two exchanges...

    Zero issue with a very well designed Instinct. 

    And now that Fenix 6 Titanium which is flawless for my uses. 

    Perhaps the very very first batch has been ultra scrutinized?

  • Out of interest .. what happens if you swap wrists on the watches?

  • You can't extrapolate. With millions sold, this forum can't be a reliable indicator for positive or negative here.

  • what happens if you swap wrists on the watches?

    It does not change anything. I find it more interesting that my first f6x delivered good values ​​when delivered. Regardless of whether "START was pressed or not. Then after a firmware update no longer. Exchange device: delivery condition good values. After firmware update no longer. Others have and had the problem too. For some it was suddenly resolved after another firmware update . 

    As an example of the many HR threads, here is a thread by an author whose watch brought good WHR values, and then no longer after FW update. The creator had previously repeatedly confirmed to me that he did not have my problem. And then suddenly. 

    https://forums.garmin.com/outdoor-recreation/outdoor-recreation/f/fenix-6-series/209523/after-update-to-5-0-whr-is-trash/983666#983666