Speed & Cadence ANT+ on Concept2 Rower PM5

Seems like connection is a bit of a problem. How it takes to connect the watch? Do you need to calibrate the bike all the time?

Excellent! I'm glad it worked for you!

I actually did a Bike Erg workout this morning, and after struggling for 10 minutes, I gave up on getting both PWR and SPD sensors connected simultaneously. This was the first time I couldn't get it. After the workout, I tried again (this time, I didn't connect the external HR ANT first) and was able to get them both connected in about 20 seconds.... So I'm wondering if maybe one needs to get PWR and SPD connected to PM5 first before connecting HRM ANT or Erg Data app, and then once those connections are stable, add HRM and ErgData, if desired.... This doesn't seem to make "sense" to me, but it's what I've observed in limited testing. 

@Gajin, any comment on this based on your experience? At what point in the pairing process did you connected external HRM? (before or after PWR and SPD?)

Nils said:

@Gajin, any comment on this based on your experience? At what point in the pairing process did you connected external HRM? (before or after PWR and SPD?)

I had my HRM-Tri on, so it connected to the watch first. I then staged the Bike Indoor Activity and it showed the External HRM connected.  Then I turned on the PM5 and the SPD/CAD sensor automatically connected,but I had to attempt connecting the PWR sensor multiple times - every time I paired the PWR sensor the SPD/CAD sensor would disconnect. Then when I paired the SPD/CAD sensor the PWR sensor would disconnect.  Somewhere during that back and forth, I paired my HRM to the PM5.  After a couple more back and forth attempts at pairing, both sensors stayed connected.

But you raise an interesting question.  I am also wondering if I need to attach my HRM-Tri to BOTH the PM5 and the fenix - maybe I don't.

I'm about to ride again in a few minutes and I'll be more methodical about the order of connections.

I think what I'll try first is to "forget" the HRM-Tri on the watch and connect it only to the PM5.  Then experiment with connection order - HRM first, then sensors / sensors first then HRM.

I'll post back if I stumble upon a sequence that looks like it will be repeatable.

Thanks again for your help with this - great info.

Nils said:

@Gajin, any comment on this based on your experience? At what point in the pairing process did you connected external HRM? (before or after PWR and SPD?)

Further to my last:

OK, I think I've found a sequence that works - at least better than before.

First, it is necessary to connect External HRM to BOTH PM5 and fenix.  With that in mind, there is a sequence that works, but the fenix must be "conditioned" to accept the sequence.  So here is the procedure to "condition" the fenix:

1. MENU > Sensors & Accessories > [Make sure your External HRM, SPD/CAD Sensor and PWR Sensor are all listed - it doesn't matter if they show as connected or not connected]

2. If HRM, SPD/CAD Sensor or PWR Sensor is not present on the watch as an available sensor, then power up the PM5 and Connect the missing Sensor(s).  It doesn't matter whether they stay connected or not, but is important that they are in the list of available sensors.

Now here is the procedure for the start of a workout:

1. Start with PM5 OFF (blank screen).

2. Put on your External HRM and assure that it is Connected to the fenix.

3. Power ON the PM5 and Connect your External HRM.

4. Select the Bike Indoor Activity on the fenix.

5. At this point, the HRM icon at the top of the screen should not be blinking, indicating the External HRM is connected.  Also, the SPD/Cad icon and/or the PWR icon should be blinking.  All 3 icons should be present, but at least one of them will be blinking.

6. If the PWR icon IS blinking, but the SPD/CAD and HRM icons are NOT blinking, skip to step 8.

7. If the PWR icon is NOT blinking and the SPD/CAD icon IS blinking, then use the PM5 to connect the SPD/CAD sensor.  This will disconnect the PWR sensor, so the status icons should show ONLY the PWR icon blinking while the HRM and SPD/CAD icons are NOT blinking.

8. Select your desired workout on the PM5.

9. Start pedaling slowly, but DO NOT START the Activity on the fenix.

10. Observe the status icons at the top of the fenix screen and after a few seconds the PWR icon should stop blinking.  This means ALL sensors are connected.

11. Start the Activity on the watch and start pedaling for real.

I managed to do this twice in a row, so I'm encouraged; but I'm still not ready to say this is 100% yet.

Let me know if this works for you.

HTH

Sounds crazy ... But at least it is possible!

The alternative is to use ErgIQ, which is not useful as it does not record into native fields, only ConnectIQ fields!

the reason ErgIQ cannot record into native fields is a decision from Garmin, DOn't blame the developer.

Sorry .. I know it's Garmin's decision to not allow ConnectIQ apps to write into native fields. I don't blame the developer but ... it is true that as is the app is not providing certain basic functions.

I was asking around a little bit. And my understanding is the following. There is ANT+ protocol to send bike Power, Cadence and Speed. However, that is defined as measurements for a bike (and only bike). This protocol is seen by Garmin watches (connecting to PM5 as to any other bike sensor). This makes everything easy and shows that from hardware point of view PM5 and Garmin watch can connect easily ... BUT ... since the Rower and SkiErg are not bikes, Concept2 decided to (had to) use FE-C protocol to send the data. This protocol can be at the moment only read using ErgIQ app but this app cannot write into Garmin's native fields only into ConnectIQ fields. Thus you get no distance etc. This makes ErgIQ app almost useless and I think most people end up using their phone and the ErgData app. Overall, the situation could be solved by couple different ways.

Concept2 could use the "bike" protocols and not FE-C to send the PWR/CAD/SPD data .. and we would just simply connect to those two machines as we do to the BikeErg. Hardware wise this is possible. It would also allow easy connection of BikeErg and Rower to Zwift etc. But Concept2 says that this would not be correct so they will not do that (I exchanged e-mails with their support). I understand their position and reasoning but it still sucks to know that there would be such an easy solution to all issues. It would be great to have an extra option on PM5s in addition to the correct protocol FE-C.

Garmin could allow FE-C protocol as native "sensors". This should be the solution. Is this likely? So many new machines coming up so at some point Garmin should solve this problem, no? I'm waiting for such update for 4 years, since I first time realized that my Rower cannot connect to Fenix 3.

Garmin could allow ConnectIQ apps to write to native fields. At least this, no? Why this is a problem is beyond my understanding. This limitation is probably hurting so many Garmin Connect IQ app developers. But again this is probably going on for several years.

In some way, maybe Concept2 could leverage PM5's ability to send data over Bluetooth ... but this has probably the same limitations as the ANT+ problem above.

Before any of this happens we are stuck with no way of connecting the Rower and SkiErg to Garmin! There are only some hacks available ... best probably this:

https://npe-inc.com/cableinfo/

but this can be controlled only by an app available only for Apple.

Let's keep pushing Garmin for implementing FE-C to newest watches. That seems like the best solution. And also ... for getting VO2max for rowing!