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training effect for cardio workout - Air-Dyne Pro/AD-7

1917106
over 5 years ago

fenix 6x sapphire

edge 830

My indoor cardio workouts are done on an Air-Dyne Pro/AD-7, which doesn't have the capability to transmit the workout data (HR, speed, cadence, ET, distance or power). The only sensor currently being used is with the fenix is HR chest strap.

The workouts only demonstrate aerobic effect, even though all display as threshold workouts, today aerobic effect 3.9 with anaerobic effect 0.0 despite 22% in HR Zone 5 and 65% in Zone 4. The HR zones on both the fenix and edge are based on LTHR, which for me is right at 90% of the estimated max HR of 220 - age.

Road bike rides always list an anaerobic effect, even though the time spent in HR Zone 5 is less than during the shorter cardio workouts. This occurred even before I installed Assioma power meter pedals about 2 weeks ago, when only HR, speed and cadence were available.

I found an app for the fenix (Spin Tracker) that can estimate speed if cadence is known by putting gear ratio and wheel diameter in settings.  My Garmin cadence sensor could be used on the Air-Dyne, since no longer used on the road bike because the power meter pedals supply cadence data.

Schwinn tech support wasn't able to provide the numbers they use to calculate speed, so I'll have to determine them the hard way by observation. The user manual for Spin Tracker indicates "Note: Garmin does not always show the IQ fields. I can’t do anything about it. ". Not clear whether they mean no data fields other than cadence would be saved unless both speed and cadence sensors are present, or whether the calculated speed and distance are also saved.

Has anyone used Spin Tracker on a spin bike or Air-Dyne that can clarify this?

  • 0 over 5 years ago

    Just a thought, but perhaps check whether your zone settings are the same across all different sports.

  • 0 over 5 years ago

    I use an Assault AirBike (very similar to your Air-Dyne). I have a Garmin speed sensor mounted on the wheel hub. I matched the bike distance readout to my watch and the wheel size value was 922. I’m not concerned with accuracy per se but wanted a consistent way to measure and compared my workouts day to day. 

    I get Training Effect values for my cycling activities but I haven’t paid much attention to them. I use the bike primarily to cross train and for recovery during marathon training cycles. 

  • 0 over 5 years ago

    Thanks -

    I hadn’t looked at the default sport settings for “Running” under User Profile/Heart Rate since I’m not a runner, but it seemed to have copied Max HR, LTFR and use LTHR to set HR zones from my main settings. I deleted “Running”. Now just have the main settings.

    The Garmin cadence sensor mounted easily on the Air-Dyne, and fortunately doesn’t require a magnet.

    Tried to download Spin Tracker, but Connect IQ only listed my edge 830 as compatible. Sent the developer a message, and either due to that or otherwise, now listed as compatible with the fenix  6 series as well as other additional devices.

    Bought the rbbbrown Elliptical app in the meantime, which will work with the Garmin cadence sensor, also provides speed and some other metrics like estimated power. Rode the Air-Dyne for a few minutes, and distance was 4x that reported by the app for default elliptical stride length, so adjusted stride length accordingly.

    I’ll try the Elliptical app tomorrow, then Spin Tracker at some point. Will have to make a guess on gear ratio in Spin Tracker settings, then adjust to get similar distance since I only have a spare cadence, but not speed sensor.

  • 0 over 5 years ago

    Hi - to be clear, Anaerobic TE is much more about catching and quantifying the impact of interval type training than time spent in any particular HR zone. Even in the upper HR zones, the vast majority of energy being used is produced aerobically once your aerobic energy pathways have a chance to catch up. So just because your workout has a lot of time in, say, zone 4 or 5 doesn't necessarily mean a bit AnTE value. That said, 0.0 is a little strange and makes me wonder if there's an issue. 

    If you've recorded a good interval workout and are still getting a 0.0 AnTE, then you might zip around the forum to see if anyone else had a similar issue and what they did to fix it. I have some vague memory of someone talking about this a few months back. You also, I guess, could contact Garmin support once you confirm this is an issue. 

    HR signal is enough to generate both AnTE and AeTE values. When it's available, power from your pedals can also be used to help zero in on exactly when an increase in intensity occurred. 

  • 0 over 5 years ago in reply to HermanB

    I found an old post, is actually yours on the fenix 5 forum > 1 yr ago, with a link to a table of workout types and expected AeTE and AnTE effects - www.firstbeat.com/.../.

    My morning Air-Dyne Pro workouts are probably like the 20 minute threshold run in the table that has AeTE only, as I am at near max intensity for 30 minutes, with submax intervals added for the last 30 seconds every 5 minutes. That doesn't classify as a standard HIIT session, and my HR only increases modestly from the slowly increasing baseline. All results except HR are IQ fields, even the cadence that is transmitted by the Garmin cadence sensor that is used by the app for step equivalents when available, rather than watch motion. The TEs for my workouts yesterday and this morning each had AeTE 3.8 and AnTE 0.0, with HR in Zone 5 19% yesterday and 17% today.

    I contacted the author of the elliptical app, and he thought that I should be getting at least some anaerobic TE from these workouts and thought that the lack of AnTE could be a firmware problem. My road bike rides that have AnTE don't have big HR spikes, but do have big power spikes on the hills, which could be where my AnTE is generated, and lack of AnTE with indoor workouts could be due to lack of HR spikes from the intervals.

    Anyone from Garmin have any ideas as to whether a firmware issue could be present?