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For people that have previously used VS Code, the switch might be easier.  For people who haven't, and have used Eclipse for CIQ for a long time, it's not.  The workflow is different, lots more use of the keyboard, managing a large number of CIQ apps is more difficult, etc.  The IDE in VS Code is far from "modern" IMO.  

When I'm "on a roll", I find switching back to eclipse if much more efficient.  Granted VS Code for CIQ is still a really early version and could change.

I'm not real wild about the command palette and think it would be better if there was something like the "Connect IQ" menu in eclipse.  Make it easier to get to the CIQ function and not have them is the long list from the Command palette.

And have a manifest editor like there is in eclipse.  Editing the manifest in VS code seem a bit cumbersome to me.

To me, VS Code would make a nice addition to Eclipse for people that like the environment, but I'm not sure it should be a replacement for Eclipse for CIQ.

jim_m_58 said:

The IDE in VS Code is far from "modern" IMO.

Do you have an example of an editor that's more modern than VS Code? I'm speaking about the IDE itself, and not the Monkey C plugin.

Alternatively, in what ways do you think Eclipse is more modern than VS Code?

I'll cite just 2 features which improve efficiency in VS Code over Eclipse (IMO):

- Command palette (what you see as a weakness - use of the keyboard - many see as an advantage, because it's faster if you don't have to be constantly switching between keyboard and mouse/trackpad). I don't really see Quick Access as an equivalent, for whatever reason. Maybe that's irrational of me, but I do find myself using the command palette much more often, maybe because you're almost forced to use it.

- Multiple cursors

People have been asking for proper multiple cursor support (not just rectangular select) in Eclipse for almost 10 years. Proper multiple cursor support is a killer feature IMO.

There's also:

- Case-sensitive replace (without using regex)

- The ability to edit files without using projects

- A richer extension ecosystem (simply because of greater dev adoption). There's nothing like Bracket Pair Colorizer for eclipse, which helps us look at complex code by using different colors for different levels of matching brackets. That's an example of a modern extension which is missing from Eclipse, possibly because there's no incentive to write one.

- Built in terminal which automatically converts file paths to clickable links to open the file in VS Code

- JSON Preferences

One way I think VS Code is modern is that it's being continuously developed and features are added all the time. With Eclipse, I can't tell the difference between the quarterly releases except that the required Java version changes sometimes.

jim_m_58 said:

And have a manifest editor like there is in eclipse.  Editing the manifest in VS code seem a bit cumbersome to me.

I agree. I raised this in the forum previously.

I think the Monkey C plugin in VS Code has a long way to go, but IMO the question of VS Code vs. Eclipse on their own merits is a no-brainer.

Like I said, I used to be an Eclipse apologist, but now I never want to go back. Don't take my word for it, ask this person:

https://github.com/garmin/connectiq-apps/issues/14

Dear Garmin,

Please build a MonkeyC plugin for a decent IDE, Visual Studio Code, Atom, whatever you feel like targeting, just please please let me build apps with humanity and decency, don't make me use Eclipse.

I thank you.

31 likes and 4 dislikes. I was one of the people who said "Eclipse isn't that bad", and now I feel dumb.

TL;DR, IMO:

- While your choice of IDE is a personal preference, a large number of devs prefer VS Code to Eclipse. (Talking to devs IRL, nobody who's used IntelliJ or VS Code prefers Eclipse, and the prevailing opinion of Eclipse is negative, unless you've just been using Eclipse for 10 years and haven't tried anything)

- If you prefer Eclipse to VS Code, it might just because that's what you're used to

- The Monkey C plugin in VS Code is def immature, and needs a lot of work to be considered feature-complete and polished. Then again the early Eclipse Monkey C plugin had a ton of issues, like if you were working on the same file in two views (e.g. two split panes), then edits to one view wouldn't be reflected in the other.

Like it or not, development is about change, and like it or not, that change usually goes where to largest number of devs currently are.

To be fair, I'll cite some things I dislike about VS Code:

- Performance with very large files (multiple megabytes) is terrible, probably owing to the fact that it's an Electron app. Eclipse isn't any faster, though

- Extension authors are encouraged to put *everything* in the command palette (including multi-step wizards), instead of writing proper views for editing properties/configuration. (Like the missing manifest editor in the Monkey C plugin).

flowstate said:

Do you have an example of an editor that's more modern than VS Code? I'm speaking about the IDE itself, and not the Monkey C plugin.

Choice of editors is really a personal decision.

As is VS Code vs Eclipse.

BTW, I've used Visual Studio since long before it was called that. To me, it's far superior to VS Code.

Yeah, I said it was a personal preference. And many developers currently prefer VS Code to Eclipse. 31 out of 35 voters supported moving away from Eclipse for monkey c. 32 out of 36 if you count the "heart" reaction. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I've used Visual Studio too. People have complained about it for a long time, but for whatever reason, VS Code is a lot more popular amongst developers today. I'd say it's one of the first MSFT products I actually liked. (Then again, it's based on Atom.)

I would also rather use VS Code (for general purpose coding / text editing) as opposed to Visual Studio. I would also still use VS Code over Visual Studio.

Also, Eclipse is also much slower to open than VS Code, even on a modern computer.

A poll on a random github site in relation to CIQ is meaningless.

It's not a random github site, it's Garmin's official connectiqapps repository.

This repo is officially maintained by the Garmin Connect IQ team, containing a small set of reference examples and monkey barrel code libraries. It is our hope that this repository will extend the resources available to our developers to help them build exciting new content!

I don't think it's a "scientifically valid survey", but it's just another data point that demonstrates *some* people intensely dislike Eclipse.

I imagine if you asked every single dev in the world, more devs would say they dislike Eclipse compared to devs who really love Eclipse.

That's just my guess tho. Do you really think it's a coincidence that a few years ago, someone said "please stop using Eclipse for monkey c". and now, for completely unrelated reasons, Garmin has moved away from Eclipse? It's probably not a direct result of that post, but I think that post does reflect overall dev sentiment regarding Eclipse.

There's also the time tracker graph I posted above.

I'll just say that there's def the *perception* that Eclipse is bad, whether it's "true" or not. And there's the *perception* that VS Code is currently very popular.

Again, talking to devs in real life, they don't have a very high opinion of Eclipse.

My very personal opinion is that I can't wait for the day I can uninstall Eclipse. I'm more efficient in VS Code than I am in Eclipse, and I just dislike using Eclipse overall.

Besides, either way, VS Code is obviously the future for Monkey C, while Eclipse seems to be the past. I'm guessing Garmin will eventually stop supporting the Eclipse plugin.

I don't think there's anything that can be done about it, except to understand why and adapt.

jim_m_58 said:

FlowState said:

Do you have an example of an editor that's more modern than VS Code? I'm speaking about the IDE itself, and not the Monkey C plugin.

Choice of editors is really a personal decision.

Sure, but I was asking you to back up your assertion that there's nothing "modern" about VS Code.

My assertion is that it's *more* modern than Eclipse, at least.

Exhibit A: VS Code has proper multiple cursor support (which has been around for at least 10 years in various editors, but is still missing from Eclipse)

Exhibit B: VS Code has preferences in JSON as opposed to XML.

Exhibit C: VS Code has an integrated terminal which automatically creates links to filenames in the output. The eclipse console doesn't even natively support ANSI escape sequences (e.g. for color)

Exhibit D: VS Code is continuously released, with new features in every release, as opposed to quarterly maintenance releases (Eclipse may have new features in each release, but there's nothing that actually helps me -- I can't tell the difference between the latest release and releases from 2018-2019)

Just my opinion. But why not ask stackoverflow, a large community of developers, arguably the largest in the world.

https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2019

I think VS Code has its issues, but I'd use it over eclipse any day. I would also use VS, Notepad++, Vim, or Sublime over Eclipse.... And there was a time I used Eclipse every day for work, so I'm def used to it.

And again I'll point out that as superficial as it may seem, popularity matters. The more popular an IDE is, the greater the dev base and the more likely it is you'll be able to find an extension that provides helpful functionality.

I've been mostly developing Java EE for the last 20 years and been using InteliJ and Eclipse. I'm not against new IDEs and I'll have a look at VSC again and see how it has developed. I guess it's mostly laziness that keeps people from switching. It works "good enough" and you know most keyboard shortcuts by heart. 

What does bug me about Eclipse is the slow startup time, memory usage, looping validation tasks (that can't be aborted) etc. Hmm. Yes, I'll definitely have a look at VSC

PS. I have a hard time believing that 48% of all developers use Mac! ;-)