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consistently unproductive

BradVincent
over 6 years ago
I bought a 645M 3 months ago and it has shown my training status as "unproductive" over most of that time, including almost 100% of the past month.

My VO2 Max calculation is at 43, but has been as high as 45.

I run trails, so my actual run time varies a lot over different terrain, but I believe I am slightly faster and my flat-course time is faster (but still pretty slow) and my runs are getting longer.

I typically run 3 times a week, training effect is around for an 4 aerobic training effect 5 mile group run, around 3.25 for a slow flat 8 mile long run, and upper 2's for a 5 mile easy recovery run.

Training load is 'optimal'.

I have a smart scale that updates my weight in Garmin's system, have been dropping weight (5lbs a month), and I know that is part of the VO2 max formula. Could that be throwing it off? I'd expect weight loss to raise my VO2 max, all else being equal. Is it possible my physical fitness really is getting worse, and I am only running better because of the weight loss?

The weather changed from cool to hot, I know I'd be a lot faster if I had the May weather again - could that be it?

Very frustrating to pay for advance run dynamics only to have it tell you that you are unproductive no matter what you do.
  • 0 over 6 years ago
    Training Status isn't supposed to be telling you the specific impact of individual runs. Rather it is looking at longer, larger trends - of which your most recent run is a part.


    Aha'e - now I get it. So being unproductive could mean that my latest rides is less than normal load. This actually makes sense to me, since it's often when I'm in a recovery period I get that status...

    PS - I get my status from the Edge 1030. I know it's for cycling, but the message is the same. I hope this is ok in this forum... ;-)
  • 0 over 6 years ago
    I tend to get "Unproductive" on my FR645 after a partularly hard run. Either the race itself, or if I'm trying to increase my speed with some type of speed workout. Since the result usually is me going faster (to varying degrees) I guess it was productive somewhat, but maybe not in the most ideal way. Still, I'll stick with my training plan and see how it all shakes out.
  • 0 over 6 years ago
    Using the run application for trails seems to be my problem. I was productive the 2nd half of the week, and my VO2 max went up to 46.
  • 0 over 6 years ago
    i recently changed from Daniels to Pfitzinger for half marathon while i still run at the same pace but the trainingsplan is different. Since changing to Pfitzinger i also get unproductive regularly. So yes it could be the watch doesn't recognize the changed training program yet.
  • Former Member
    0 Former Member over 6 years ago
    Hi Keith,

    Happy to try and help make sense of your situation, but I'm not quite following what you expect your watch to be telling you.

    Training Status isn't supposed to be telling you the specific impact of individual runs. Rather it is looking at longer, larger trends - of which your most recent run is a part.

    I'm not sure there is a specific feature that is designed to recognize your 'short slow run' as recovery. In the language of Training Status, "Recovery" indicates a lighter Training Load than usual.

    If you're looking for the specific impact of individual runs, then Training Effect is the feedback you're after, although it is only describing the impact in terms of the potential development of aerobic or anaerobic performance capacity - not for example - 'this run was good for promoting recovery'.


    Thanks for this info , to be honnest I dont know what to expect off a watch I find it fascinating trying to work out why it gives me the status it does .
    I can understand why the OP was a little disappointed at being unproductive and it would be great if maybe this one status could have a bit added to give information on why, example unproductive overreaching or whatever the calculation has found to be unproductive.
    I quite enjoy trying to guess what my training status will be after a run , think I loose most of the time .
  • 0 over 6 years ago
    I've switched to the 'Trail Running' feature and been productive and up to 47 VO2Max since.

    This seems like a stupid technical problem. The watch should be smart enough to know not to lower VO2Max if it is calculated low on 1 run, if you ran several other runs recently with a high VO2Max.

    I was worried trail runs were some of my best runs, and effectively turning off VO2Max calculations meant missing out on measuring gains. I am happy to report this is not the case - the watch does just as well or better updating VO2Max on a slow flat recovery run than an all out effort. It still calculates TE, and calculates load and recovery correctly.
  • 0 over 6 years ago
    Back to unproductive after an 11 mile easy run last night, and not doing any trail runs with the 'Run' application.

    My performance condition started off at -4 near mile 1.5. It dropped to -8 a quarter mile later. Then rose to -1 before mile 3, where it stayed all the way until mile 9, when it dropped to -2.

    This is unusual because I don't think I've ever seen a number as low as -8, and it never rose substantially during a run. Typically, it will start as high as +6, depending on how well rested I am, and it falls at almost a linear rate throughout the run.

    I think the watch gets confused whenever you are fatigued from anything that didn't use the 'Run' application - including trail running, although crossfit type work and weightlifting seems to be worse. I feel my heart racing during workouts, but measure a low heart rate and low TE - I posted this in another thread, but the consensus was it doesn't pick up enough detail without a chest strap.
  • 0 over 6 years ago
    Did you have high heart rate at the beginning of the run? I’d say not getting a positive PC means you are still unproductive but the start at really low PC points to erratic data
  • 0 over 6 years ago
    Did you have high heart rate at the beginning of the run? I’d say not getting a positive PC means you are still unproductive but the start at really low PC points to erratic data


    My starting heart rate wasn't high, but it might have been a little high for such a slow pace. Today I started with a PC of +3, which is typical, but went up to +12! Training status is now 'Peaking' even though load is 'optimal' and VO2 max is still 47.
  • 0 over 6 years ago
    My understanding is that the watch compare your speed with the effort (HR) you are using to keep the speed. It can probably take some change in height into consideration, but it is not able to tell if you run in 5cm mud or on asfalt.
    So, it you run in heavy conditions it will think that you ate working harder to keep the regular pace and think that you are loosing your shape.
    if you are fatique after heavy training or sick the same will happend. Your body will work hard (high HR) but you wil go slower and the watch will recognice that tou are in bad shape.
    If you recentlynhave had a huge raise in performance (as from 42 to 47) and you are having a bad day, it will be natrual that you see lower performance number in the start of the run than before (as you before would have a mutch lower relative starting point).