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VO2Max in Trail Running

(Note - I could've sworn we had a big discussion on the "coming" Vo2max in the Trail Running profile, but I can't find the thread now.  Maybe it was deleted?)

Anyway, there was much discussion in that thread about the "how" this would be done.  Well in DCRainmakers review of the coming Enduro watch, he has a long segment from FirstBeat's "HermanB" covering just that.  Thought those that participated in that phantom thread might be interested.  Here's the link and the segment quoted:

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2021/02/garmin-enduro-gps-watch-in-depth-review.html

'At the most basic level, the analysis used to calculate VO2max compares how fast you are running compared to how hard your body works to maintain that pace. Given that we are using heart rate as the key input to determine your effort, it’s important to understand that there are times when your current HR accurately reflects your current speed and there are times when it does not.

 

So, there has always been a lot of filtering and prioritizing happening in the background to sort out things like uphill/downhill, stops/starts, intervals and naturally occurring changes in intensity, etc… all in pursuit of identifying when relationship between and internal and external workloads reflects your fitness level (VO2max) and when it doesn’t. For all the obvious reasons, trail running adds a substantial layer of complexity to this problem. Changes in elevation have been incorporated into the analysis for many years now and that remains the case for trail running-based VO2max – but only to the degree to which it has been previously used.

 

The new element in the mix here is how accelerometer data is being used.  We are basically looking for and identifying patterns in how you are running to recognize when more energy than normal is being used to keep pace. In other words, it’s about attributing the fact that your body is working harder due to the ruggedness and changes of the trail instead of simply assuming you’re working harder than normal because of inadequate recovery or a drop in fitness. Without taking this perspective into account, your VO2 max would almost always be underestimated during trail runs. Getting a VO2max estimate from your trail runs is kind of neat but I think the ultimate value here is probably that it also means you are getting more data fed into things like Training Status. Perhaps it’s worth noting that there isn’t a separate “trail running VO2max analysis.” The developments that make estimating VO2 max during trail runs possible are baked into the normal VO2 max calculation, making the whole shebang more robust.

 

From a user perspective, there is a setting that still allows a user to disable Trail Run VO2max calculations in the Trail Run profile.  A big benefit of the Trail Run profile in the past is that users could effectively use it to “screen out” trail runs so they wouldn’t affect their VO2max, Training Status, etc.  If users still want to exercise caution with VO2max on trail runs (especially, say, if they are wearing a pack), they can use this setting to still “disqualify” a run from generating a VO2max so it doesn’t mess with their other features.”

  • Se ci lamentiamo con il 945 del 2019, pensiamo ai possessori del 745, neanche un anno dopo il lancio: batteria aggiustata in durata, rimosso widget del sonno e prezzo sempre lo stesso, ottimo affare per chi l'ha comprato Thinking ora puntano tutto solo su Fenix

  • I agree, I have the 745. And I mean more, they took the sleep widget out of it. Garmin is abandoning the fourrunner line, sad but true.
  • Hello, regarding this email, the agent's working in product support are not prithee to information regarding feature release dates as this is confidential information. The agent is not lying that they haven't heard of plans to release the feature to the watch, because that information hasn't been shared to that level of support. When features get released they are announced in the software update posts that get made at release of an update. In regards to the VO2 max for trail running specifically coming to the Forerunner series of devices: One of my biggest tasks is to report high impact issues to get them brought to the engineering team lead and summarize what I have read here and then that information is used in the decision making process. At this time nothing has been confirmed one way or the other. The fastest way to find out would be to either check in on the posts with the software update when they are released, or if there is a public beta released, downloading the public beta, (directions provided in those posts.)

  • Does this mean we have to stop the Garmin abandoned/lied to us post?  They're so entertaining ;) 

  • Thanks for your reply to this feature. As you see, from the discussion on 2 topics, this is certainly an high impact feature that should be brought to engineering team lead. Especially since DC Rainmaker has stated in their Enduro version that the feature is coming to 745 and 945. Since this is an algorythm change, that is already in the fenix 6 series (like almost all other features non hardware dependent are) this is a marketing decision, if it won't arrive to the 745 and 945 at least.
    To my knolwedge, if this won't arrive to 745 and 945 is the first feature, that doesn't require any specific hardware, that is being left out. Lately Climb Pro descent has been brought to fenix 6 series AND 745 and 945. And this is a great trail run feature BTW. I was missing it since Climb Pro arrived to 945. 
    So from our point of vue this Trail Run VO2max has all the requirements to arrive to our watches, maintaining the 945 the absolut leader all round watch.

    Also it makes no sense to use this feature as a breaking point. I know you must start to save features for a new model. But that should be in sync with other platform, not with this fenix6-945. 

    My own opinion.