Anaerobic Training Effect - how does it work?

but isn't it like you are getting anaerobic and aerobic effect and while you work out and  intensity changes / your body adjusts to it - you get different proportions of aerobic / anaerobic over the time? i am not expert whatsoever, but these are all HR derived metrics which would suggest big impact at the beginning, later just small increments. and I can see this myself while running, sometimes i get more, sometime less of TE, depending on how i do. and duration of exercise is actually changing both proportions and actual numbers go up slower and slower.

www.garmin.com/.../

global_local said:

Can someone explain to me what I'm doing wrong?

You are not doing anything wrong. The intervals are not strictly cumulative. The watch is looking at the peak anaerobic EPOC during the entire workout. Periods of rest decay the EPOC.

The peak EPOC can happen before the end of the workout

It is possible to get a higher anaerobic TE

This is from at 12 x 1mn maximum steady effort with 1mn rest.

A good way to check is your stamina graph. You need to floor the stamina in the last intervals.

global_local said:

DSW [email protected] I did 11x and what did I achieve? AnTE: 2.8, nothing more

Replace your 4.20 pace by a maximal pace.

If you cannot bump the AnTE, there is a possibility that 2 factors are playing against you:

- your Max HR is wrong (probably too high). If you wear a strap all the time, you avoid spurious data most of the time. Leave auto-detection on. If you are a trained runner, you can check your peak HR during your last 5k PB and add 5bpm to confirm Garmin's estimate, or do a lab test.

- your HR/pace/duration correlation model is biased. For example, if you run hills for your intervals, you will get an underestimated anTE. For best results, train with a balanced load focus. From time to time, replace your DSW pace by your maximal steady pace for whatever interval. Exposing the watch to actual maximal efforts can help adjust the correlation model to reflect your maximum performance: the watch extrapolates for maximal efforts, and pro-rates down from Vo2 Max data points for everything from target paces, Training effect, recovery times, stamina, etc.

https://assets.firstbeat.com/firstbeat/uploads/2015/10/FFW609US05-171.pdf

Hi, You could try sprints of 20-25sec instead of 10s. Yesterday I've had a Vo2 max running workout, at the end I was not that tired and my anaerobic training load lately has been low, so I've done some sprints, the widget for aerobic and anaerobic values before the sprints was 3.8 aerobic / 1.2 anaerobic. After 6 sprints of 20-25sec @2:40-3:00/km with 1min cooldown in-between, went to 4.1aerobic/2.9 anaerobic. I was running out of time so I ended up there but with repeats of 130/160m I always get good anaerobic response. If You check Garmin info about anaerobic effects opening a workout/ graphs/ Training Effect/ Help/ Anaerobic they says that high intensity training from 10 to 120sec has high impact, maybe doing just 10s repeats is not enough for you. Are you using a chest strap? for sprinting that can help. I also get the 10s sprints workout from DSW and I usually skip them, they are just estimations. 

OT: How do you get this stamina graph?

blende8 said:

OT: How do you get this stamina graph?

Sorry, I should have checked it is supported on the FR255, but apparently it is not.

Thank you all for your thoughts.
Let's take the papers from firstbeat - it says - clearly and precisely - "High oxygen debt is created when you exercise at an intensity level higher than your VO2max." www.firstbeatanalytics.com/.../
When I look at my data on Runalyze (there I can see effective VO2max for each section), my VO2max for 7x intervals alone - rounded are: (VO2max/pace)
83/3:04, 80/3:12, 84/2:53, 98/2:54, -/2:47 , 78/3:05, 88/3:17. My VO2max calculated by Garmin is 47, and 42 by runalyze.
So it was clearly over 100% VO2max of 42. :)
And AnTE increased in steps:
1.2, 1.1, 0.2, 0.1, 0.1, 0.1, -0.1.
I can't see any connection there. Except that scoring without the 7th rep would be better...  :/
OK, tomorrow is interval day, I'll try this with 7x 20 sec sprints :)

Etupes25 said:

- your Max HR is wrong (probably too high)

No, it's OK, can reach my maxHR of 184 bpm on 4-5 repeat. LTHR is steady too - 164 +/- 2bpm.

Etupes25 said:

- your HR/pace/duration correlation model is biased.

May be. But i can't figure out how. I'm 60 yo, can it be the issue? The Age impacting a AnTE formula? In some way like a VO2max calculation? I do a lot of a low pace/HR runs (aka MAF) and i bike 3 days a week  for about 1h.

global_local said:

No, it's OK, can reach my maxHR of 184 bpm on 4-5 repeat.

How did you determine your Max HR?

global_local said:

I'm 60 yo, can it be the issue? The Age impacting a AnTE formula? In some way like a VO2max calculation?

No

global_local said:

I do a lot of a low pace/HR runs (aka MAF) and i bike 3 days a week  for about 1h.

Possibly. As I said above, from time to time, replace your DSW target pace by your maximal steady pace for the intervas of the workoutl. Exposing the watch to actual maximal efforts can help adjust the correlation model to reflect your maximum performance.

Think of anaerobic workouts as a proper strength workout at the gym: you need to use weights (pace) so that completing a set (interval) is barely possible and you need enough sets (intervals) that you absolutely can't do one more.

So you can ignore the target pace of anaerobic workouts or sprints workouts and go for maximum steady pace.

For VO2 Max and threshold workouts, you should respect the target pace. Then, for these workouts, if you actual TE result doesn't match the objective of the workout, it would be further confirmation that your Max HR is off and/or your model biased.

Etupes25 said:

How did you determine your Max HR?

That's what Garmin tells me (autodetect). And I would say - it's seems to be true.

Today i done 8x20sec@3:05 min/km, and got a aTE 3.2 and anTE 3.1. 

So I would say - it worked. Thanks again for your support! My mistake was - believing too much in the DSW, they make suggestions that are a little palliated. I really have to sprint all out to make it work.