Related
This discussion has been locked.
You can no longer post new replies to this discussion. If you have a question you can start a new discussion

Can I correct the VO2 max estimate?

Cooad
over 1 year ago

Is there a way to set a VO2 max estimate manually, if I know it's way too high?

I've had a Garmin Vivomove hr for about 5 years, so there's some history on my Garmin account. At the end of February I bought a FR255. The reason I bought it is because I want to run a half marathon this year, and a marathon next year. So it's my coach Slight smile

When I started running at the end of February my HRmax was set to 191 (220-age). During the first 2-3 weeks of training I realized that the max HR too high, because I just couldn't hit zone 4 (which started at 167 BPM). I took a look at my history, and I've found that the highest HR ever recorded with Vivomove hr watch was 177, and that was 4 years of sitting on a couch ago. So I did some tests (hill repeats and other such things), set my HRmax to 175, and my zonest to use heart rate reserve. Based on my last 6 weeks of running with these settings, I think the HR zones (and by extension HRmax) are set correctly.

When I changed my HRmax, my VO2max estimate started dropping by 0.05-0.15 (I can see the drop in the .fit files) each run, which totally makes sense. I started out with 49 (which is too high), and I'm currently at 46.1 (which is still too high). The issue is that because my VO2max is dropping, my training status is "unproductive" or "tired". I assume that with enought time, the VO2max estimate would stabilize, and I'd get positive training effects - is there a way I can speed up that process?

Runalyze is estimating my VO2max at 28 - if that's true, with the rate the estimate is currently dropping, I would have to wait ~6 months for my watch to be accurate. That's an awefully long time to hear your coach tell you you are unproductive Disappointed

I tried setting my VO2max to 30 in Garmin Connect Web, but that got overriden by my watch on the next run.

Bonus question: after I changed my HRmax to 175, my watch "detected an HRmax change" and set it back up to 185. I lowered it manually again, and next time it reset it to 180, so I disabled the auto HRmax detection. In both of these activities my max HR didn't exceed 155. I assume this won't happend, once the VO2max is (more or less) ok, and I'll be able to turn that feature back on?

Top Replies

All Replies

  • 0 over 1 year ago
    Cooad said:
    my training status is "unproductive" or "tired"

    ... has not much to do with vo2max. Their impact is maybe 20% or so. And that's not the estimation. This is a measurement. Just like the heart rate measurement. If you lower your HR max manually, you cannot train effectively. Let the watch do it for you. Follow daily suggestion training and stay in the green sector of acute load. VO²max score 46 is for an 29 yo man rather average, not more. You can do it better, much better. But slowly, don't hurry up. Your body need time. And if you have doubts about heart rate measurement, buy an hr chest strap. The cheapest one will do the job.

  • 0 over 1 year ago in reply to global_local
    global_local said:
    Cooad said:
    my training status is "unproductive" or "tired"

    ... has not much to do with vo2max.

    Well, the description I get on the training status widget says something like "Your acute load, hrv status and training balance looks good, but your VO2max is dropping - try putting more focus on your recovery". So it clearly states that it's connected to that VO2max estimation.

    global_local said:
    Just like the heart rate measurement. If you lower your HR max manually, you cannot train effectively.

    As I said before I adjusted my HRmax, I wasn't able to reach HR zone 4. One time when my watch suggested a treshold run, I couldn't even reach the specified HR range. And I am using a chest strap Slight smile

    global_local said:
    VO²max score 46 is for an 29 yo man rather average, not more. You can do it better, much better. But slowly, don't hurry up. Your body need time.

    I'm aware of that. But I don't believe my VO2max is 46, I believe it's lower (as does my watch, because it keeps dropping). What I'd like is to manually drop it a few points to help my watch reach the correct estimation quicker.

  • 0 over 1 year ago

    Runalyze's effective VO2MAX is actually more akin to VDOT. There's all sorts of stuff you can do in Runalyze to smooth out its estimate and IIRC it heavily weights race results. If you look at a plot of those measures are in bold.

    Mine is also about 7 less than my Garmin yet my RA prognosis roughly matches the Garmin race predictor. This too bears out in actual races. You absolutely should not expect them to be the same measure.

  • 0 over 1 year ago in reply to smashsmashsmash

    Well ok, it's not the same thing so I should compare these numbers directly.

    Still, my difference is 18 point, which is 64% when you compare it to runalyze and 39% compared to garmin. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. I would just like to nudge my watch to get to that middle point quicker Slight smile

  • 0 over 1 year ago in reply to Cooad

    Do a guided LT test. and calculate your zones from percentage of LT reserve.

  • 0 over 1 year ago in reply to smashsmashsmash

    Do you really expect a person who cannot reach heart rate zone 4 while running to perform an LT test? I would first deal with my health and be sure to listen to the doctor's recommendations on this matter. If your watch says that you are tired, then you need to at least react to this, and not come up with solutions out of thin air - like - "I think that the x or y of the manufacturer is not working properly."

  • 0 over 1 year ago in reply to global_local

    Their zones are wrong. They used the age formula to determine max HR for one. (mine is higher by 20 bpm as an example the other way, and it's not a trainable attribute). The guided LT test is not demanding. I think the last one i did was a 5/10 minute warmup and done in way less than 10 minutes, and without maxing out. It isn't a maximal test. It measures HR wrt to pace and extrapolates. It is not the same as the auto detected LT from a longer run where you spend significant time in zones including high aerobic.

    I am going to assume you have never used the function.

    If it was a case of lack of minimal base fitness the opposite of their problem would be the case. They would hit zone 4 within a couple of minutes jogging or walking up a hill.

    Along with that test and pulling an actual MaxHR from a run they have done (as in the ones they "failed to reach zone 4") as they must have been going flat out they would have appropriate zones.

  • 0 over 1 year ago in reply to smashsmashsmash

    I think you should at least be able to run continuously for 20+ minutes to take the guided LT test. It should be effortless enough to keep the heart rate moderate at least the first 5 minutes.

  • 0 over 1 year ago in reply to ovekvam

    I had planed to do a guided LT test this week, so I went ahead and did one today. Seems like my LT is 149 BPM. (5:50 minutes/kilometer). 

    However, I don't think this helps my initial problem - the VO2max has dropped to 45.89 . I truly believe this estimate is tainted with with a history of activities with wrong HRmax (and by extension, wrong HR zones). 

    Would it help if I removed all previous activities from the watch? (I don't really care about the history on the watch itself, as long as I have the activities in connect)

  • 0 over 1 year ago in reply to Cooad

    It will even out now as you do suggested workouts. The FirstBeat stuff will have detected that you were slowing while HR was increasing in the incorrectly determined  zones and so surmised that you were fatigued.

    You should also check that your bodyweight is correct in the garmin ecosystem for a closer VO2Max estimate.