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FTP Test by Garmin is totally wrong and not the Standard Protocol?

f|33tStA
over 4 years ago

i am not sure, but i think, the Garmin FTP Test is totally wrong and not like the Standard FTP Test Protocols, or?

in the 20min phase, the Garmin Test change the Target of the Power every 4 minutes higher, the first 4 minutes are arround my actual FTP and then Garmin increases the value, after 8 minutes to a value where it's impossible for me, to hold till to 12 minutes, same after the next step, the target is now so high, more ore less 100 Watt over my actual FTP, it's impossible to hold it so long.

Why all other to the FTP testing different, like Zwift, in Zwift you get the message after 10minutes, you have now a average of e.g.210 Watt, try to increase it, so you cqan hold it for the next 10 minutes?

i know, i do cycling for fun and i am near 50 years old, but is this Testing really right?

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to mcalista

    i already tried to turn it off on both 830 and FR945, but the LTHR changing won't stop between running and cycling, so it seems, thats only a problem for me, looks that something goes wrong with my connect account or so :-\

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to f|33tStA

    hope   slaps me not around a bit with a large trout when i have again some questions to understand? Stuck out tongue winking eye

    i set my LTHR on my Edge from 158bpm to 120bpm to see what happens, my maxHR is 167bpm

    made 3 rides, the automatic detection of LTHR should have to work or not, because it don't change or detect a higher value then 120bpm?

    my vo2max decreases from 49 to 45 from ride to ride, after every ride i take a look on the max target of the FTP Test protocol and it seems it decreases the target arround 10 Watt

    so i am asking again, why a so big change of LTHR can only change the target value so minimal? 

    and the autodetection of LTHR don't work?

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to f|33tStA

    Did you update the FTP setting on the device itself? Because the ramp test in the Garmin Edge bases its target power off of your FTP. The first step should be about 80 to 90 percent of your FTP, the final step about 120 to 130%. Changing your FTP in the device itself will change the target power for all these steps.

    You can update the FTP in Garmin Connect and sync to your device, or set the FTP in the device itself.

    Based on the numbers you showed earlier, it looks like the FTP set in the device is around 216: 80 to 90 percent of that (rounded to the nearest step of 5) gives you 180 to 200 Watts for step one, and 120 to 130 percent gives you 260 to 280 Watts.

    With an FTP of 192, your first step should be a relatively easy 155 to 172 Watts, and the final step should be a hard but doable 3 minutes of 230 to 250 Watts.

  • +1 over 4 years ago in reply to 9264957

    thanks for your answer, i tried really all variants, changing on Edge and sync with GCM or change in GCM and sync to Edge, etc. but it never worked, because the Garmin Ecosystem don't forget old wrong FTP calculations and you can't reset it.

    my colleague in my work have the same prob and had a lot of email support with Garmin, but they never come with a solution, only stupid things that you can find in the manual.

    so i decided to never use the Garmin FTP Test anymore, instead i do my FTP Test with Trainerroad, change the FTP manually on Garmin, but the historical FTP in GCM won't be updated, so it's useless :-\

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to f|33tStA

    i don't give up on this topic, because i am sure, there is something wrong because Garmin and of course Firstbeat means, that i have to ride in the last 5 minutes in the Test over 150% of my FTP and 150% (highest Zone), this is neuromusculär Zone, this Zone is defined by short and explosive Sprint and i am sure a Sprint isn't done up to 5 minutes, or?

    think, it's near impossible for every rider, or?

    Zone 7 (>150% FTP ) is for sprints arround 30sec and so

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to f|33tStA

    The use of ramp tests (of which the Garmin/Firstbeat method is one variant) to estimate FTP is widespread in sports science. And yes, the nature of a ramp test IS different to the steady state 8 and 20 minute tests.

    The nature of ramp tests is that the difficulty will KEEP increasing until the rider is unable to maintain the effort (which will certainly be well over threshold). They then look at  the point at which the rider was no longer able to continue, and scale back from there to estimate FTP. 

    The very objective of a ramp test is to take it to the point where it is impossible for THAT rider to continue. You are not meant to be able to do 5 minutes @ 150%. 

    You can do a 20 minute effort if you prefer - Garmin will take the FTP result from that.

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to mcalista

    thats a good question, is the Garmin test a so called 20 Minutes FTP Test or a Ramp Test where normally the target power sligthly increases every minute as long as you give up?

    i think, in both cases the Garmin Test isn't OK and of course, the Targets in the FTP Test never changing based on your real FTP

    my FTP is 184 Watt (100%)

    My Power Zones:

    Z1: 0-100 Watt ( 0-54% of FTP) - Recovery Zone
    Z2: 101-137 Watt ( 55-74% of FTP) - Endurance Zone
    Z3: 138-165 Watt ( 75-89% of FTP) - Tempo or Pace Zone
    Z4: 166-192 Watt ( 90-104% of FTP) - Threshold Zone
    Z5: 193-220 Watt (105-119% of FTP)- vo2max Zone
    Z6: 221-275 Watt (120-149% of FTP) - anaerobic Zone
    Z7: 276-999 Watt (150-543% of FTP) - neuromusculär Zone

    The Garmin Test Target:

    Warm Up till Lap Key
    1st Intervall 4 minutes: 180-200 Watt ( 98 - 109% of FTP)
    2nd Intervall 4 minutes: 200-220 Watt (109 - 120% of FTP)
    3rd Intervall 4 minutes: 220-240 Watt (120 - 130% of FTP)
    4th Intervall 4 minutes: 240-260 Watt (130 - 141% of FTP)
    5th Intervall 3 minutes: 260-280 Watt (141 - 152% of FTP)
    Cool down 2 minutes

    If the Garmin Test is a Ramp Test, then the Intervall Time for each is wrong, because Garmin wants to hold the Average Power Target in each Intervall, or?

    That means, garmin wants, that i ride 4 minutes in my anaerobic zone and then 3 minutes in my neuromusculär Zone?

    The Target don't change in the FTP test, no matter which is my own FTP, every time it shows i have to ride arround  230 Watt Average Target for the whole Test, that means Garmin means my FTP is arround 218, so the test is only for rider which have an FTP of minimum 218 Watt so they can ride a average of 230 Watt

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to f|33tStA

    If I try the test I get different targets

    My ftp is 253

    1. Warm up till lap key

    2. 220-240w

    3. 245-265w

    4. 270-290w

    5. 295-315w

    6. 320-340w

    7 cool down

    Looks like it's calculating the ramp based on your ftp being in the middle of the 3rd section rounded to 5 watts.

    Other ramp tests are different, Zwift starts at 100w for example, but I guess thats because it doesn't know a starting ftp and is universal.

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to jgforrest

    thanks a lot for your values, so it looks like i have to ride it more like a Ramp Test and not as the normal 20min FTP test protocol as in Trainerroad, so it would be better to guided better in the Garmin Test, means, as in Trainerroad or Zwift, where you have every minute a increased target

    you are able to ride 320-340 Watt for 3 minutes at the end of the Test? Stuck out tongue winking eye

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to f|33tStA

    I usually do the Zwift ramp test, not tried actually doing this one, I just looked at the preview.