2023 Map Update Problem through Express -

Only if you have installed both EU maps and NA maps, not if you have installed only one of them. Not sure why you want to have both installed though unless you travel very frequently between both continents!

But having the mapping available in smaller regions would be a much better solution, hopefully Garmin will implement that in the near future.

I don't have direct experience with Garmin support, but I do see some Garmin employees to be active on this forum and trying to solve customer problems. We also have a beta program where more attention is paid to customer feedback and fixing bugs. We don't often hear back or see detailed progress on issues and some well reproducible issues remain unsolved for a very long time, which deserves improvement. But on the other hand we do get software updates including bugfixes and you can often see in the forums that Garmin is quite willingly replacing user devices when those misbehave beyond what they consider acceptable or expected. So it's kind of a mixed bag in my view.

I am a software engineer and I know that debugging issues where network and customer devices are involved is particularly hard. In your map downloads not only Garmin (or "cloud") servers and your Garmin device in involved, but also network operators, your home router and your computer on which you run Garmin Express. We have even seen in one of the recent threads that someone had an unreliable USB cable that was causing map update issues. It does not mean that Garmin Express couldn't be improved in terms of protocols or even how things are displayed to the user, but updating continental maps is not a trivial problem. I think in this space the best experience I have is updating OSM maps in OsmAnd, but I think the key difference there is having country-level maps. So I think smaller map regions is what we should be asking Garmin for.

For the core functionality, I think GPS positioning is solid, sensor data is great (well, maybe except temperature), mapping is good (even if updating takes time), battery life is fantastic, I don't experience random crashes (except maybe in the trainer control widget), my activities upload to Garmin Connect reliably and in seconds. Yeah, "free" ClimbPro is noisy and sometimes ridiculous, some derived metrics are opaque and questionable, getting to see my GroupTrack friends usually requires a manual refresh, but would you call those "core functionality" even if important for some people? To me the bugs that are most questionable are in the workouts space (after all Edge is positioned as a training device), but even there it's around the edges (no pun intended) like suggested workouts or rewinding a workout. And yeah, last time I tried to navigate a course it ended badly ;-) Navigating to a particular destination seems to work fine for me.

And to explain why you might not be able to update preloaded maps on some units - it's because the map sizes increase and at some point there is not enough space.

If I remember correctly, Edge 1040 (both Solar and non-Solar) come with US and Europe preloaded, but with the recent addition of ClimbPro data both regions together no longer fit in Edge 1040 non-Solar (Edge 1040 Solar has more space). Yes, it's maybe questionable why ClimbPro needs to use that much space and why a recently released device can no longer fit preloaded map regions, but hey - you most likely don't shuttle between US and Europe every week ;-)

But we're starting to discuss two different issues in this thread: a) updates failing because of lack of space (explained above) and b) updates which are slow and unreliable, but ultimately succeed (this was your main problem @mickledore to my understanding).

Thank you, but we are skirting round the main issue. Garmin seem more concerned with the theory of how their units work rather than the problems involved in their practical use. 

An example...

I have a still unresolved problem that has been kicked to the techy dept. several weeks ago. 

During long discussions I tried to send a screenshot of my unit. You cannot attach anything to a report. I uploaded the image to a Web hosting site and sent a link. They refused to look at it. They sent me their own private uploading link which I used. They ignored it but replied demanding a file from my unit. 

I had to download the file, remove what they said were extraneous fitems and then follow a compression method. After this I was to upload the file via another in-house uploader. All went well till I hit the send key. I was given an error message that the file was too big to send. 

So, Garmin software uploader cannot handle Garmin files. Talk me through that. 

Now we hear^^^ that updated Garmin maps cannot be fitted into the Garmin units that they are designed for. 

Excuse me if I use the word incompetence but what would you call it?

Also look at these forums. Nothing but problems. And most of the problems relate to software not doing what it is supposed to. Now who is to blame for that?

Sorry if I sound cynical but Garmin really seem lost in their own private world where everything they do is perfect and everything we do is wrong. 

While I sympathise with you on your efforts to solve a problem and struggling with nonsensical processes and buggy tools, let's get one thing straight:

mickledore said:

Now we hear^^^ that updated Garmin maps cannot be fitted into the Garmin units that they are designed for. 

Nope, Garmin units are not designed to fit all possible maps and maps are not designed to fit on all possible units. Which I think we should actually appreciate. Garmin has a de-facto semi-open system where a lot of maps, even custom or free maps can be uploaded to units. This is great. Garmin also lets you change the "factory" regions you have on your units, for free. I think this is also great. Garmin is also evolving their maps (well, OSM based, but this is also great ;-) adding more regions and more detail (Popularity Routing, ClimbPro), which is also fantastic. I wouldn't want any of this to change, if it does I will most likely stop using Garmin units.

A system where you only have maps for one region and need to buy another unit for another region would be much worse. A system in which you cannot update your maps but need to buy a new unit for new maps would be much worse. A closed system where you cannot add specialized or overlay maps to scratch your particular itch would also be much worse. Maybe paying extra for enough memory on the unit to include all "factory" regions (including new regions and updates to those over the next 10+ years, I guess) would be OK for you. In this case Edge 1040 Solar is the closest you can get (I wouldn't pay for the Solar screen which I consider to be a gimmick, but the extra memory is great).