Navigation/GPS not working properly

Update: Garmin customer service contacted me after discussing a bit and asked to send in the Fenix 7 under warranty, which I appreciate. Credit where credit is due, thank you.  Hopefully this will resolve the issue. 

Just an update: 

So, the issue doesn't apear to occur on a Garmin 955, or a Polar V2, for similar/same route(s) (and not on 6 or 6s either iirc but not sure). 

I have been able to reproduce the issue of the missing/late turn notifications on a 7s.
The opposite turn direction so far, seems specific to this unit, so I am going to check the route again, to see if it was a fluke or what. 
I only have this unit about a month. 

So I wonder if there is something in the Fenix 7 software causing this? . With the F7 it does seems to get it sometimes, but it is consistently behind it feels. Is there some parameter set different in the software compared to other Garmins? 

Came across this Garmin video, that discusses missing/late turn notifications, and how to deal with it: 


 I can see if some routes it is better than others. I often use Komoot to make routes, at the same time, I have never had this issue with various Garmins, and the fact that other watches do work normally, but the Fenix 7(s), suggest that possibly it is an issue with that watch. 

I have had Fenix 6(s), and the 6 was accurate as can be, never had this issue. It's so bad I am considering going back to the 955 or other watch. 

Follow up questions? 
1. One thing I wonder is that when first buy the F7, it doesn't have the main maps installed, but some low density map, maybe the GPS configures to that, and when you download the Topoactive maps it throws off the metrics somehow? 
2. It could be nice to set the distance/ timing when you receive a turn notification manually? 
3. Will setting the Routing from Hiking for Trail running to Mountainbiking help for example? I read somewhere that Garmin bases the turn notification on the time it expects you to be at the turn? Maybe my (changing) pace is throwing it off? 
4. Are others with a Fenix 7 having similar issues or there turn notifications work fine? 

There are two different navigation modes (you can change them in the settings of each activity). There is "use map" where the watch calculates the route and creates the turn instructions based on intersections on the map. And there is "follow course", where the watch does not calculate or create anything but only displays what is included in the course fit file. What is included in the file depends on the software you created it with. So Garmin Connect may add different turn instructions compared to komoot. Garmin Connect is known to generate turn instructions not based on the map but only based on the curvature of the track, which often results in missing or misleading instructions.

Maybe this is where the difference between your tests on different watches comes from. 

The instructions that come too late has been a complaint from Garmin users for a long time. 

In my experience the entire map sometimes is so laggy that my position and orientation on the map can be seconds behind. So it isn't just turn notifications. It may still show me approaching a on the map when in fact I have already run through the turn a few seconds ago. I find this to be more of an issue when I am running faster, especially when running a fast downhill. 

The whole design with turn notifications is a big mess because it isn't based on the actual map data but solely on a shape of the course (as they mentioned in the above video). For example, when running on trails, when you approach a Y shaped trail fork with a small angle between trails, don't expect it to tell you whether to go left or right because there isn't a turn according to the course shape. Sometimes that causes a misleading situation when it may tell you to turn right while in fact you must go left. That's because it may not "see" the current turn and tell you about the following turn. I've seen that all many times.

#Matthias# said:

There is "use map" where the watch calculates the route and creates the turn instructions based on intersections on the map. And there is "follow course", where the watch does not calculate or create anything but only displays what is included in the course fit file.

Hi, 

This can vary depending on the device. 
An Edge 1030 will create and shows turns when “following a course” if you don’t turn related setting o 3 different places of a given activity profile. 

what frustrates me the most is indeed the lack of clear information in the manuals…

why only trails as next fork (f7xpro on 15.77)?

when creating a course on Garmin Connect why only on “others activities” “turns” can be set to on?

Etc, etc, etc 

Epix and Fênix lines were supposed to be ABC watches focused on navigating features but we lack all kind of info about it.

kmz, coursepoints (cues), turns. 

the info I get comes from this forum where people help each other but Garmin itself…

First off, thank you for your replies. It helped, and I appreciate it very much. 

Yeah, I tried the "use map" too at first, when I saw ths feature. However the first time I tried, was right before a race, and it gave me an "out of memory" error when calculating. So I switched it back, during the run it worked allrightish as route (not much worse or better than normal). 

After I factory reset the watch (again), I tried to load the same course as "use map" to see, and it did fine.  I did have some Topoactive maps deleted from the watch, but idk if that is related.  

I had a bit of back and forth with the store, and Garmin, and I do have to say Tradeinn really pulled through in the end, credit where credit is due. Garmin I was getting a bit miffed at because they wanted to possibly trade the unit with a DOH model (which is a refurbished unit with only 1 year warranty, and my unit is only a month or so old, and 2 year warranty, so I told them no way I would accept, when the store heard Garmin's offer they offered to accept the watch as return. )

So I then tried the POI, en "use as map"(?), as well for trail running set the routing type as mountainbike (hoping that the calculation would be for a fast moving object than running, so it would warn earlier), and tbh, it worked pretty well. What I also did when making the route, is to put the route pins at the corners of routes, to see if that would make difference (where before just used to routing it by pressing along the route, not specific anywhere. 

So, before I went to return it, I wanted to test the cycling one more time, since the running was doing better, just to see if it was one off, or different route, would make difference, and the resets, etc. Well, it got some turns right, but then some wrong (altough some of those were near roundabouts too, and navigation can get roundabouts wrong on different types, that's normal), but in one leg it completely stopped giving turn directions for like 3km, until like the final turn. Now, no Garmin I have ever owned has acted like this, and I just could not fathom what was going on. I did one more search to see if could find anything, like if more Fenix 7's had this. Others here who have owned Garmins for longer, can understand my confusion maybe why the watch was acting like this.  

Then I came across this thread (not sure why I didn't before): 
https://forums.garmin.com/outdoor-recreation/outdoor-recreation/f/fenix-7-series/344674/navigations-prompts-not-working-anymore#pifragment-1292=1

And low and behold, when you go the Garmin Connect, there is no toggle to turn on turn notifications for Cycling. So, I am theorizing that is why the cycling turn notifications are all borked, while running works better (with some tweaking). 

That can also account why, before it was working fine with my Fenix 6, Instinct 2, etc (altough not sure why the 955 didn't have these issues. Although iirc the Forerunner and Fenix series use different software bases? So, that could explain that a bit. 

So, I will do some more testing, to see if using "other" map for example in Garmin Connect will solve the issue, since you can turn on route notifivations there, as well as the "use map" in the watch. It does become a bit cumbersome compared to the old way, of just create route and go. (and I use routes a lot, so for me essential functionality and one of the main reasons getting a Fenix). 

If that is the case, some relief then, that it is a software issue maybe and not a hardware issue, and that I can keep using the watch. Because in many ways I like this watch a lot, and I really don't know what watch would fit the bill to replace it. 

But may be issue of:
Please fix it Garmin, in a software update, to make it more easier again, the way it was, because tis is utterly confusing to the user now, as well as just weird, why doesn't cycling have the turn notification switch for example. 

Okay, that is good information too know, thank you. Yeah, that Garmin explanation, and this whole feature is a bit, I agree. It could be helpful to at least have some text on the Cycling profile course builder page, where the toggle would be for example. At the same time I struggle to understand what this toggle usefullnes is. 

That explains why the 955 was working fine then. Also I see the Toggle changes were made (at least) about 6 months ago, and I haven't had this issue with other Garmins, at all. 

Also not using the Garmin Connect app for courses, while it is one of the main advertised features, that wouldn't sit well with me after buying a 500Euro watch. Some things should be expected to work, barring a temporary bug for example. 

So, it looks more and more reasonable that it may be this unit of the F7 that is the problem maybe. Garmin and the store have offered to take it in under warranty and take a look it, and then hopefully it will get sorted. 

Will use a 955 until I know more, and the Polar Vantage M3 looks interesting too. Altough I had tried the V3 and had some issues with HR and stuff, but maybe it was that unit (refurbished). And besides every time I try Polar I get a Garmin anyway. It´s a shame because besides these issues the F7 is amazing bit of kit. One reason I do prefer the 955 is the that can have more fields on the screen, and the navigation is better. It's a tough choice between those 2. Anyway, let's see how this goes with the return and warranty, and then hopefully will be sorted.