What does Fenix 8 / Tactix 8 Need To Have To Make You Upgrade?

msquared2 said:

Yes, it most definitely IS unthinkable for me to run with a phone. If JUST RUN WITH A PHONE  were valid then why my Garmin has all this pointless redundant smart watch junk (offline music; garmin pay; weather app; etc) that is right there on my phone?

Non-runners might not understand why JUST RUN WITH A PHONE  is unacceptable. Can I ask @#Matthias are you a runner?

Exactly this. I'll run with a hydration pack, phone and inReach for the 20k+ runs on then weekend, but most runs for most people during the week are going to be somewhere in the range of 30 to 60 minutes. On those runs you just want to be free, no phone bouncing around, no pack, just the watch headphones and some music or a good podcast.

Edit: Garmin already have the ability to send voice messages back and forth between devices (see the Garmin Bounce kids watch). It's almost completely predictable at this point that they will roll some form of voice messaging (developed for the Bounce) and image sharing into Garmin Messenger and integrate this into the Fenix line either in the 8 or the 8+. That would honestly be enough for me. A lot of us just need some mechanism of being able to quickly exchange messages back and forth with a partner when we're out on one of those shorter runs or rides, and the fact that this will seamlessly work through the inreach is even cooler. Friends and family would only need to use a single messenger to contact you anywhere on Earth.

bluefish said:

msquared2 said:

I can see Fenix forum is not the place for runners like me

If you think you are in the wrong place in the fenix forum, perhaps your wishes would fit better in the forerunner forum ?

This raises an interesting point. Fenix customers are a diverse group who sometimes have conflicting interests. In my opinion you can broadly group them in the following customer personas:

• Some folks don't do any sport at all but just want a long-lasting good looking rugged watch that with basic health tracking and something that forwards notifications to them. 
• Some folks like myself run, hike and ride with their watch. It's something that they want to replace the dedicated GPS device for navigation, a running coach, a cycling head unit, and a communication device for when they don't have the phone with them. They basically wanting everything device to minimise what they're carrying.
• Some folks are only interested in one activity like riding or hiking where they're always carrying a pack or have storage for a phone. They don't need the watch to run any apps or communicate, and they're just looking for a few more sports or mapping features. 

2529455 said:

most runs for most people during the week are going to be somewhere in the range of 30 to 60 minutes.

The forerunner is ideal for this. If you were to look around at a marathon and take statistics on the Garmin watches used, I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of runners there use the forerunner and not the fenix.

silentvoyager said:

Yes, I fully agree with this. For example, I cannot comprehend the push to have audio prompts for everything. It is a watch! When it vibrates, you can always glance at your wrist and see what's going on. That's the point of having a watch! 

Because as a cross-country mountain bike rider, you have no time to be looking down at your watch to see if you're on the correct course. You want to have the turn announced at least 50 m beforehand and to keep the eyes on the trail at all times.

This is one of the biggest issues in this forum. People are so quick to write off certain features as being completely pointless because they don't do a particular activity that needs it.

You should ideally be able to turn this feature off for certain activities, but understand that there is a sizable contingent of people who really do need it.

bluefish said:

2529455 said:

most runs for most people during the week are going to be somewhere in the range of 30 to 60 minutes.

The forerunner is ideal for this. If you were to look around at a marathon and take statistics on the Garmin watches used, I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of runners there use the forerunner and not the fenix.

But I need my Fenix and its extended battery life for Ultras, hikes, and the rugged case that it has for rock climbing and mountain biking. See how difficult this is for some people. We don't just slot neatly into one category.

2529455 said:

But I need my Fenix and its extended battery life for Ultras, hikes, and the rugged case that it has for rock climbing and mountain biking. See how difficult this is for some people. We don't just slot neatly into one category.

Good point. Most road runners prefer the forerunner because of its light weight (plastic).
Fenix users usually need something more robust (metal).
Difficult to combine both.

2529455 said:

Because as a cross-country mountain bike rider, you have no time to be looking down at your watch to see if you're on the correct course. You want to have the turn announced at least 50 m beforehand and to keep the eyes on the trail at all times.

Have you ever used Garmin course navigation when going on a typical MTB trail with a lot of switchbacks? I have as a trail runner. I'll go mad if I have voice announcements for that because it would tell about every single sharp turn, often every few hundred feet or less than 100 meters apart. On top of all other issues, Garmin turn notifications implementation is pretty dumb because it is based on the shape of the course rather than guiding you through actual junctions and intersections. If the there is a sharp bend in the shape of the course even though you continue on the same trail and there are no other trails, it considers that being a turn and inserts a notification about the turn. And the opposite is true. If there is a real turn into another trail or junction of multiple trails, but it isn't sharp enough, like an Y shaped trail junction, Garmin doesn't consider that being a turn so there won't be a turn notification. You have to look at the map to figure out which way to go. I've seen some example where the notifications were outright misleading, where there is a series of quick turns - in some cases it may tell you to turn left when in fact the planned course goes right.

I do actually have turn notifications turned off for the reasons I mentioned above - way too annoying an useless when running on trails. And I suspect it would be similarly annoying and useless when riding on trails, at least in my area.

Given that Garmin goes with the option of doubling down on their strengths in the sports and performance niche and does not get too distracted with the smartwatch features to compete with Apple, Samsung and Google for the casual market share, and the fact that Fenix is historically the flagship that is always the first to get new bleeding-edge features (even when they're a bit raw), I fully expect -

• Fenix 8 or 9 - Continuous Blood Glucose - either optical, native integration with CGMs (not just a 3rd party datafield) or both.
• Fenix 9 or X - Continuous Blood Lactate - by partnering with (or even acquiring and integrating) a startup like IDRO or PK Vitality.

bluefish said:

Most road runners prefer the forerunner because of its light weight (plastic).
Fenix users usually need something more robust (metal).

Yeah as a runner I would never wear a Fenix because of its weight. But I know some runners who wear a Fenix bc they think it looks nicer than Forerunner (especially with business attire)