Incorrect OpenWater Swimming total distance and speed

Issue

I did a comparison of the Fenix 7 with my TomTom Adventurer during open water swimming. It appeared that the distance logged by the Fenix (on the watch as well on Garmin Connect) was 2231 m whereas the distance logged by the TomTom was 3.16 km. I know from experience that the TomTom is right, hence the Fenix logged distance is to far to short (29% to short!!).

The speed recorded by the Fenix appears 2.37 min/100m which is 2.3 km/h which is also to low since I swim about 3.2 km/h. Makes sense, since the speed is derived from the distance.

Note that I attached both watches to my swimming buoy (20 cm distance between them) for better satellite signal reception. They were above water all the time with a clear 180/360 degree sky view.

Software version: 8.18

Analysis

Exporting both files to GPX (using own software tools) and showing the activities in Oziexporer reveals  some remarkable issues

In red the TomTom, in blue the Fenix.

Issues:

  • Some parts of the track do not contain trackpoints, revealing as straight lines. Especially in the northern part, which is the first part of swim and in the south-west corner.
  • Other parts of the track show trackpoints each second, whereas the Setting: Data Recording -> Frequency is set to 'Smart'. Usually it would skip trackpoints
  • Based on this, Oziexplorer reports a distance of 3.05 km for the Fenix, which confirms the 2231 m of the Fenix/Garmin Connect is far to low.

I enclose the original FIT file of the activity: tracklog.studioblueplanet.net/2022-05-17-19-43-02.fit

On close analysis the FIT file contains 1053 erronous [lat, lon] coordinates [180, 180]. This cannot be due to poor satellite reception since the watch was on top of the buoy giving it a 180 degrees sky view 360 degrees around (the best you can get). 

Note that in the conversion to GPX format, I filtered the [180, 180] coordinates out.

The GPX contains 2448 correct coordinates. Assuming each coordinate represents the same distance and a wrong coordinate is not counted in the total distance, this would mean the total distance calculated is 2448/(2448+1053) * 3.16 km =  2209 m, which is pretty close to the reported 2231 m by the Fenix and Garmin Connect.

I checked another Open water Swimming activity in which I compared the TomTom (on buoy) and Fenix 7 (on wrist).

TomTom (blue): 2.17 km

Fenix (red): 2.06 km, 17 malformed [180, 180] lat/lon coordinates

I checked a trail run: 1 malformed [180, 180] coordinate

I checked a generic cycling event: 0 malformed coordinates

I checked a short hike: 1 malformed coordinate

Conclusion

  • The Fenix logs wrong coordinates [180, 180] in all activities. 
    In Open Water Swimming they appear to be numerous. 
  • Calculation suggests that this results in wrong distance calculations on the Fenix, which renders the watch not very usable for the serious sporter!!
    Other posts on this forum also report wrong total distance for other activities.

Advice:

  • Solve the bugs so coordinates are correctly logged
  • Make sure that if occasionally a wrong coordinate occurs, it is omitted for distance calculation. In other words calculate the distance only by calculating the distance between correct coordinates. This gives better results than current situation.
  • Ahahaha, I guess they're still laughing, specially who spent so much money for a buggy watch.

  • @philipshambrook: software or swimmer as the cause: you forget the hardware. Often a device has various hardware revisions, often with slightly different components. Furthermore you leave out the settings. Please, what do you use for logging frequency (smart or 1 sec), satellite systems (GPS or all)? What type of Fenix do you use? And do you use multiband (F7x)?

    @philipshambrook: you mention satellite reception: I used the watch on a buoy in OWS. On open water this means no obstructions 360/180 deg around. Perfect reception. Problem persists.

    @philipshambrook: the problem isn't always present. Maybe you're just lucky ;-) we need statistical evidence.

    I guess someone must have mentioned it to Garmin Support. What is their response? Since this is a Garmin (garmin.com) forum I hope/guess they are aware of these problems.

    @Hexa1962 I believe the issue you mention (irregular coordinates) is different from 'my' problem (missing coordinates, underreporting)

  • No response, i reported this bug tons of times for 3 differente devices (4 because 955 is affected also).

  • @scubajorgon As I have shown in the example given, the track recorded by Fenix 7xs is basically far off the real track and position I swam. So was the recorded distance. I the example given I compared the Fenix 7xs with an Apple watch 7. The Apple watch recorded track is the correct one. The Apple Watch was worn on the ride arm, the Fenix 7xs on the left arm. And I swam freestyle. Fenix 7xs setting was 1s recording, GPS only. A few days ago, I swam using all GPS satellites in 1 s recording, the result was even worse with complete wrong track.

    I'm really wondering how @philipshambrook get this clear track. A year ago I used a Garmin descendant MK2s, this watch performed as advertised. But recent complaints in this forum also show problems with watch now. But frustratingly, there's no reply from Garmin so far after my complaints.  

  • you forget the hardware.

    I didn't. But you'll only find out if you have a hardware issue if Garmin Support is contacted...and they respond of course.

    I used the watch on a buoy in OWS. On open water this means no obstructions 360/180 deg around. Perfect reception. Problem persists.

    In which case Garmin Support should definitely be contacted as there is a high probability of a hardware issue.

    I guess someone must have mentioned it to Garmin Support.

    Anyone having a problem with OWS should contact Garmin Support. 

    I'm really wondering how @philipshambrook get this clear track

    I swim freestyle. That's it. No secret. And I have tracks that go back many years since the 310XT; most good but some not so good. Here's a selection of some of the bad ones and not so bad...

    https://www.strava.com/activities/1279071875

    https://www.strava.com/activities/1278793408

    www.strava.com/.../1278610874

    https://www.strava.com/activities/4089819870

    www.strava.com/.../7255805126

    As I have consistently said, most of the time OWS works until Garmin change something then it doesn't. However, in my experience it's been better more often than not. And I've had consistently good results with the F7/Epix and F6 but took some while to get the F5 plus to settle. But the Marq Athlete is a whole new story!

  • Hi . I think the all new watches have same problem . I just got couple of weeks ago forerunner 945. My previous eatxy forerunner 735xt had read the open swimming almost 100% correct. I wpold be swimSee no evilng in metered open space with boys telling you distance so i know the watch was correct. The new Garmin is cutting about 30% of my swim millage. I would do avg 2000m in 30-33 minutes . As a strong sSee no evilmmer i know for years my pace. When i have alert the issue the answer want i heard what absolutely embarrassing for Garmin support. I have send them links to my current activity and my old once. AllSee no evilf old activity was around 30-33 min ( 2km  - pace 1.40 max) . I have compare to new watch which was approx 1500m in 35 min !!! You know what i have been heard that the old Garmin was reading wrong. See no evil is means that last 10 years i was lied by triathlons and aquathlons organizators because i were doing that distance in that time . Also that would mean that my new watch is correct but milion otherSee no evil competitors watches were wrong See no evilHear no evilSpeak no evil . They should be ashamed to even trying say something like this. I was a professional national swimmer and yet the guy tried to tell me i am swimming almost 12 min slower over the night ( Because new watch is correct ) all previous watches  was wrong and obviously distance in races was also wrong ! 

  • Unbelievable but true... I just stop to talk with Garmin about this issue. If you want an advice, just use your old 735 or use other brand.

  • Unfortunately not that wealthy to by so many devices and my 735xt got sold so i can afford new one . I think is very important that ppl start openly reporting that issue as this is a joke . Watches for approx 550-700 euros ! Warranty should apply . 

  • It is very frustrating but I am trying to live with it. I agree that the bottom line is that the new GPS chipsets dont do as good a job either capturing GPS signal as quick (when hand is in recovery mode) or lose GPS too quickly when hand is in water as compared to older watches. I too lose distance and I try to explain why this happens and how Garmin may be able to improve at the epix link below.  I emailed that to the beta support team but not sure this will read or addressed, but one can hope.

    forums.garmin.com/.../my-ows-distance-issue-analysis-report-with-potential-improvements-garmin-please-read-this