Concept 2 integration with Epix Gen 2

cs1605 said:

it used my epix heart rate and not the heart rate from the activity

Do you use a different, external heart rate monitor for the Concept 2 setup? Is that HRM connected to the Concept 2 rower only and not to the watch? 

Even then, the watch should not remain in 'low 60s', it should largely follow the heart rate from chest strap / whatever else you're using, perhaps with small timing changes.

cs1605 said:

The body battery does not reflect the rowing workout and the drain it should have had.

cs1605 said:

The intensity minutes does not reflect the rowing workout.

Same problem, related to very low heart rate somehow recorded for this activity. Low heart rate -> low intensity -> low battery drain

cs1605 said:

it did add 1300 steps to my total, even though not one was taken.

You moved the hand your watch was on for the duration of the workout, it recorded that movement as steps. 

cs1605 said:

Any thoughts on how to get rowing fully integrated into garmin connect for all associated features.

if you want best integration with the watch, just use the built-in "row indoor' activity' and setup concept2 on the watch as a 'trainer'. Setup external HRM to connect to both the watch and the trainer, if you can. 

Garmin watches only count effort correctly towards 'Training Effort', Load and other statistics if the HR goes 'through the watch' during the activity.

If you just export to garmin from ergdata, you won't get that.

Also, you will get the activity into Garmin twice - once from Garmin's 'indoor row', and the second time as the export from ergdata/concept2 logbook, so consider not exporting from logbook.

Logbook however is what gives you the nice PM5 screenshot added to Strava activity if you use Strava. 

I use both (garmin Indoor Row activity and ergdata export), and then just manually delete the duplicate entry.

Sounds like cs1605 does not record the workout on the watch at all, if so it's no wonder that a lot of various garmin-stats doens't take it into account.

I have to agree with Absurd; the best setup to get all rowing data into Connect is to connect the C2 to the watch as a trainer/power-meter and record the workout directly on the watch using the Indoor Rowing activity and not import the workout from ErgData afterwards. This way all the Garmin-stats will work (Training Load, Training Effect, BB etc.etc.)

I also record the the workout on ErgData in parallell, which then is fed to Strava. Strava will get the duplicate from Connect, but I also just delete this manually.

HRM is also critical to get the stats right - I use chest strap connected to both the watch and the C2. The built-in HR sensor is notoriously bad for activities like rowing.

For what it's worth, I use the peloton rower and the interaction with my epix watch and the garmin chest strap with that rower is pretty awesome. I just record the activity through my epix watch, the only problem I have is distance and average/max watts is not calculated, so I have to manually edit the activity to include those. There's a github project to manually or automatically import peloton workouts into garmin connect too: https://philosowaffle.github.io/peloton-to-garmin/ maybe there is something similar for the concept rowers

One more thing about Epix 2 HR sensor not recording precise values during rowing (indoor or outdoor). The optical sensor iis very explicitly said to be imprecise during sports where you hold something in your hand - rowing, power lifting, backcountry skiing etc. Muscle contraction in the lower arm affects blood flow. I wouldn't be surprised if it was THAT imprecise - reading real 170-ish as low 60s. Chest strap is a must in these scenarios.

I'm thinking about buying the C2 rower, have an Epix2, want to add to Garmin's Training load etc, but also would like to use EXR or similar 'game' for motivation... Does anyone know if I can use the watch as a bluetooth 'bridge', similar to Virtual Run activity, for rowing? or is my only option to use Row Indoor and keep the PM5 connected to EXR independent (as I assume the PM5 does not allow 2 bluetooth connections?). Thanks for any help

Thanks everyone. I took your input and did a number of test rows yesterday to figure out the behaviour. The following is the best way to have it record. However there is one bug in the garmin system which I will explain at the end.

Configure your Ergdata to send workouts to Garmin connect app.

Connect your HRM to both the PM5 and the Epix. Connect your phone to the PM5 (note I was using a Samsung)

Set your PM5 to your desired workout recording it with Ergdata (Concept 2)  

Select indoor row on the Epix, and start the activity

Do your rowing workout

Save the activity on Ergdata, stop and save the activity on your Epix watch.  Ergdata  (Concept 2) will  send the workout to Garmin connect as will your watch.

Garmin Connect will record both the workout from Ergdata (Concept 2) and from the Epix. 

The information of the two workouts will vary a bit at this time. The Epix workout will be missing the following data (watts, distance, pace per 500m, speed, also the calories appear to be lower when compared to Concept 2) all of which can be manually entered/corrected after the fact. You also have to correct the time as typically you start the watch before you start rowing and stop it after the workout which can add a number of seconds. This impacts some averages. Garmin Connect updates the Ergdata information with the intensity taken from the Epix data but is missing the training effect (this is a bug according to Garmin documentation support.garmin.com/.../

You can then delete the Epix version of the workout which I find easier that adding all the missing data to the Epix version of the workout. This does not impact your Intensity numbers or your body battery, but I am very sure it removes that information from the training effect.

The bug I was talking about from the training effect documentation, see link above. Since the training effect is not listed in the Ergdata ( concept 2 ) recording I am assuming this is a bug, or maybe it is being calculated but just not displayed (still a bug).

Can I Get Training Effect from Third Party Activities?

You can now see training effect when you upload third party activities from apps such as Zwift, Concept2, etc. Training effect will update when you have a training status capable device associated with your account.

Now if only I can get them to move performance away from a running focus to biking or rowing. 

Martin, 

I would suggest doing what I found out yesterday. Use EXR to record the row in detail and give you the great graphics. Your HRM connects to both the PM5 and your Epix. Start an indoor rowing activity on the Epix. Do your row. Then have EXR send the data to the concept 2 logbook which can then send the data to Garmin Connect. While it gives you two entries in Garmin it has all the details about Training effect and intensity.

Many thanks cs1605. I should also point out that I had completely missed the point that the watch connects via ANT+ and therefore leaves the bluetooth connection free for EXR!

Thanks for the reply

@cs1605 You’re missing an important point:

You can connect the PM5 as a powermeter on the Epix, this way the Epix-recorded activity will include all/most of the rowing data like power, pace, distance, stroke etc.

No need to sync activities from ErgData to Connect!

Saho,

You are right. Just found that option, and it does provide all the information. So for everyone else let me provide some details. 

On the PM5 Press "connect", "more ANT options", and select ANT+ FE-C.. This sets up the PM5 as a sensor to your watch

On the watch select "Sensors and accessories", then select "add new" and select the PM5 device that is listed.

When you are ready to row

Connect your HRM connect to both the PM5 and the watch.

Set your activity as indoor rowing, and wait for the PM5 to connect to it

Set your workout on the PM5 or Ergdata phone app that is connected to it.

Start your indoor rowing activity on the watch

Row

at the end stop and save your activity on the watch, and also on the Ergdata/PM5

So the only problem I have found with this is the extra time between starting and stoping the watch and the starting and stoping of rowing. There may be something with MoveIQ to solve this but have nopt explored that yet.

Also you do not need to link your Garmin and Concept 2 accounts to exchange data. So no double workouts.