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VO2Max and Training status not updating despite high load and significant training improvements

Chazvn
over 2 years ago

Hi

 

I use a Garmin Epix Gen2 since Feb 15, 2022. Prior to that a Fenix 6 and before that a 945.

I use an external HR device: sometimes Polar Verity Sense (hand band), sometimes Garmin HRM Pro. I also use a Stryd Gen2 as footpod device, calibrated carefully and weekly.

I have been a runner and a triathlete for almost 7 years thus having basic knowledge on training, and on Garmin generally. My training has been quite structured with a Coach: with adequate Anaerobic + High Aerobic Sessions (overly high) + Low Aerobic Sessions also.

 

Problem: my VO2Max AND Training status has not been updating since July despite the massive mileage I have put in and significant threshold changes. I have gone from 50km mileage to 90km mileage; Pace threshold has gone from 4:25 to now 4:00. VO2Max has been stuck at 57 with Training status as Maintaining for the past 02 months (21/08), until now. Details,

- July 24: I had done a 10km race and identified my threshold pace as 4:25, VO2Max @ 56

- Aug 28: I had done a Half Marathon race: my threshold pace increased to 4:15. Prior to the race, on Aug 21, my VO2Max increased to 57.

- Sep 25: I had done another Half Marathon race: my threshold pace increased to 4:07

- Oct 16: in the latest Half Marathon race: my threshold pace increased to 4:00

During all of this time: my Training status is almost Constantly at “Maintaining”, only one occurrence it moved to Productive for less than 48hours after Sep 25 then moved back to “Maintaining” despite the high load, significant improvement in performance. VO2Max did not move at all, remains at 57.

On the exact same gears and setup, in May 2022, with lower load, I have my VO2Max increased to 61 with quite gentle effort. My threshold pace at May 2022 is 4:05+

 

We have note many of my fellow runners on Garmin devices experiencing the same thing: Garmin VO2Max not updating despite training increased, performance significantly improved. Some semi-pro athletes even got their VO2Max reduced from 74 to 64 with quite the same load and training schedule.

 

Is this possibly a bug/ defect on Garmin? I / we can send you more logs, the snapshots to showcase these.

Thanks.

 

.

  • 0 over 2 years ago

    I have the same issue. Not really sure it's an issue though... Just curious.
    My VO2max is calculated after each run but it's increasing very slowly. I can see the value in Runalyse grow with 0.01 to 0.05 between each run. As a matter of fact training status has frozen to "maintaining" for the past two months, despite training load inscreasing consistently... And VO2max is also increasing, but too slowly to get a "productive" status.

  • 0 over 2 years ago

    What about 10/half/maraton estimate ? Does it change over time ?

    Garmin GUI does not show minor VO2Max changes, but you can see it after integration with runanalyze - it shows "vo2max by file" which is vo2max value with 2 decimal digits precision.

    I know this is not a minor change, but having more data may give you a hint what is happening.

  • 0 over 2 years ago

    I have the same issue with my Epix 2

  • 0 over 2 years ago

    I am looking at your screenshots and I don't see anything wrong. It is still possible that there are system/implementation issues, but since all these metrics are calculated on the watch, if you are using release software, I doubt you are showing bugs here..

    Your training status has been on the positive side since the end of June: 6weeks productive, 12 weeks maintaining. Pretty good!

    Your training focus is heavy on high areobic, and you see the benefits with an improved threshold performance. In general, it is a great that you can use more of your aerobic engine at a higher level of performance without suffering from lactate saturation: the proportion (pace at threshold)/(pace at VO2Max) is increasing!

    Between 2 people with the same VO2, the one with the higher threshold pace will will all endurance races.VO2Max increases by training, but more slowly with trained athletes. Top athletes don't focus on improving their VO2: it is already maximized by years of training and great genes! They focus more on what you do, increase the FTP/VO2Max proportion.

    Now, the watch is using statistical models to give you a VO2Max. For these estimations to be most accurate you need to have a balanced training, including enough VO2/anaerobic workouts so that the watch gets your "pace curve" right (similar to maintaining your Stryd Power curve). Also, make sure your physiological data (HRMax, age, weight) are correct.

    For good practice, run 6-8 x 4-5mn intervals with a 1:1 ratio run/rest and *steady*, maximum pace (about 120-130% of threshold pace probably), and look at your stamina graph. You should see your stamina hit the floor during the last interval. If it becomes "negative", your VO2 is underestimated. If it stays positive, either you didn't put your best effort in, or your VO2Max is overestimated.

    Finally, keep an eye on your HRV trends. Since your training status is "maintaining", it is probably balanced, so it shouln't be an issue here, unless you have been out of balance for a long time and your base has shifted down too much. High stress doesn't hinder performance, but can make the training less productive.

  • +1 over 2 years ago

    Updated November 15th, 2022:

    Software version 10.43 fixes the issue.

     Please review the following Support article: (Ensure your activity qualifies.)

    What Is VO2 Max Estimate and How Does It Work?

  • 0 over 2 years ago in reply to drkglb

    Yes, quite the same for me, AND many other users in our group, and it seem to happen from June 2022 onwards. The thing is, with the same set of gears, same person, VO2Max was very much higher in May 2022 (I am talking about 57 vs. 61). Somehow I have a hunch that this relates to HRV - I do not have my watch on all day - mostly during activities only.

  • 0 over 2 years ago in reply to TomaszD

    About the race prediction: yes, it does change over time, it gets better as my running threshold increases.. If I go into the VO2Max screen and see the changes, then yes, i see incremental, very very small over time. But my query is: why in May 2022 my VO2Max was 61 and now only 57 with the exact same set of gears, same person, quite the same running threshold (maybe slightly better). I think there is either a change in maths or just recently HRV status is incorporated into the VO2Max maths. Else should be a system bug or something.

  • 0 over 2 years ago in reply to Etupes25

    Hi: thanks v much for your kind detailed response. It makes some sense. However, as I mentioned, May 2022 my VO2Max was 61, now with the exact same set of gears, slightly better threshold my VO2Max is 57. And this is happening to quite a number of runners in our group. We wonder what has changed. Either the maths has, or somewhat this is related to HRV status just recently incorporated into generating VO2Max numbers - I and the quite a number of the mentioned users above do not have our watches on during sleep..

    I will test the HRV now by having the watch on me - not ideal thing for me really but worth testing out. And also testing out the interval sessions.

    Thanks once again for your response.

  • 0 over 2 years ago in reply to Chazvn

    The answer is simple. They changed the algorithm with the new Training Status 2.0 for VO2 :)

  • 0 over 2 years ago in reply to micro

    can this be confirmed via a official source. thanks