Performing a Guided Test to Determine Your Lactate Threshold

"What is the solution here?"

*My* solution (which doesn't mean that it necessarily needs to be your solution): I don't bother about HR at all. As philipshambrook correctly points out the HR is influenced by a lot of factors. For *me* the guiding principle for my training: what is my goal i.e. what distance and time. Based on this there are various workouts with pace *ranges*. Especially the ranges are quite important. A base run on any given day might vary by 10sec plus minus in pace depending on the overall training schedule.

Of course it makes a lot of sense to see a general HR trend to avoid overtraining for example.

What would happen in your example if you run a 6:15 pace, but your HR on that day is 125 for this pace? Or asking in another way: what solution would you like to see? 

I believe I have read somewhere in the Garmin material that if you are not just a recreational runner then doing a Lactate Theshold Test every 1-2 months is recommended.

Based on my Lactate Threshold heart rate/pace then I do believe the pace that Garmin is suggesting I run at is about right based on the research I have done where the focus is to do much of the training at a slower pace.

I use the Garmin Suggested Workout feature each day and have it set to train me for a race in early November. I am currently in the Base Phase until Sept 13th. I have set my plan to guide by pace rather than heart rate. Where I live is currently hot and humid and can easily impact my running heart rate by a significant amount.

However, until I get into the Build and Peak phases of the plan much of my running is just Base running which feels comparatively slow compared to how I used to run, but is the correct approach to take. Each week I usually fine a Threshold, Sprint or Anaerobic run also added in, as well as a recovery run.

My VO2Max/Lactate Threshold has improved during the last 8 weeks and I have seen some small adjustments to the targeted paces as a result.

And you see this is a behaviour I would expect. Small incremental increase it LT (Vo2 is increasing steadily). The last LT change the watch is showing is from last manual test from 11 November 21...

I understand the written word may come across wrongly given the absence of non verbal communication cues, but Micro appears to be unduly aggressive labelling people trolls or telling them they are wrong. To me the forum is about people helping each other with issues not to be aggressive smart ar#es.

If you can't contribute positively, done contribute and don't abuse others.

• It is normal to call facts as they are. If someone is wrong it is normal to point this out. 

Micro,

On the basis that the Epix 2 was released in early 2022 and your last LT change was in November 2021 then that suggests it was done on a previous Garmin watch (e.g. Fenix 6 perhaps?). Have you tried to restart the Epix 2 and then do a manual guided Lactate Threshold test to see if it shows a different heart rate/pace combination afterwards?

Well the exact same thought crossed my mind, but provided all the data has been migrated I thought it is as functional as assessed on Epix (you are right, It was done on F6Pro). Do you think reset is necessary in that case before retesting?

PS. This is feedback I expect as a user in this forum. A feedback from someone who reads entire posts and if in doubt, ask additional questions.  

Of course, a base run should have a base pace, ie a pace which corresponds to about 80% of your lactate threshold (LT)

Remember that Garmin uses VO2 Max, to give you your targets! NOT your actual performance history (your pace during a 10k for example), and NOT your LT metrics.

So the conclusion is simple, if your targets are off, your VO2 Max on the watch is off and/or there are some bugs in the implementation of training programs.

What is the solution?

Use the daily workout suggestions to determine the type of workout, and the design of the workout, and replace the targets by the targets you derive from your LT test. Create a corresponding workout on GC if you want your workout alerts to work well.

For example, if you have a long base run, replace the pace by  78% of your LT pace, or use a range from one of the many tables showing running zones by LT percentage.

Even better, replace pace by power. Run a 10k as fast as you can, and you average power will be a good estimate of your LT power.

After a few weeks, run a new 10k race or a new LT test if you stick with pace.

This way you achieve your objective of having a balanced training program, and you have a chance of performing actual base, tempo, Threshold, VO2 and anaerobic workouts.

This is what I do for my indoor cycling workouts. The targets are completely off (see thread here: https://forums.garmin.com/outdoor-recreation/outdoor-recreation/f/epix-2/307200/9-33-broken-vo2-max-biking-daily-workout-suggestion). My targets are laughable, sometimes lower than the warmup target for VO2 intervals!

Alternatively, use Garmin Coach programs. These ones work well, and are not skewed by your Garmin LT and VO2 metrics.

Note:

The problem with the Garmin system, is that everything is in its own silo: your training history, your training status, your training effect, your LT numbers, your VO2 max, but every training recommendation is dominated by VO2 max. I know things are better now with training readiness in terms of "linking" the silos, but combining individual scores doesn't solve the problem of the sovereignty of VO2 Max (and HR Max). Now, maybe there are additional issues with implementation, and bugs here and there.

If you are not seeing the expected behavior regarding LT that you would anticipate then I would first suggest doing a manual Lactate Threshold test via the Epix 2 first before you considering reseting the watch. The other issue I have also found is that my Heart Rate zones on my running profile get corrupted, so it is worth checking those and if necessary just reseting those (rather than the entire watch).

If you do a manual LT test on the Epix 2 and it gets the same result as you currently have then you could go to a lab test or try one of the self-measured alternate approaches to get an idea on whether the watch is correct or not. Alternatively if the manual LT test results are the same then at that point you could reset the watch and try the manual LT test again.

I personally dislike reseting a watch unless I really have to due to the hassle of getting it configured the way I like again. As others have said the Garmin algorithms are skewed heavily to factor in VO2Max, so the other question is what was your VO2Max back in Nov 2021 vs now, and does it seem correct.