Wrong heart rate monitor during training

8374040 said:

Thank you for your extremely helpful comment though! Really appreciated… 

My pleasure. Always happy to help.

Dr Phil said:

The limitations of wrist heart rate is nothing to do with the price of the watch and have been well publicized by all manufactures including Garmin.

This thread is not about inherent limitation of OHR so you are off point.

OHR worked fine before but after software updates does not work nearly as good. Moreover, Garmin itself admitted that it has OHR software issues long time ago but failed to fix the problem. The same problem affects forerunner 255,265, 955, 965 users as well (besides fenix 7 and epix users), and 165 users are starting to notice same thing.

Fenix 6 and 7 too by the sounds of my friends' experiences. The fact Garmin have admitted to it being a software issue affecting ALL watches of certain models raises big questions about why they continue to sell these watches and continue to state the optical HR is "highly accurate". Is this not blatant false advertising? Sounds like material for a class action lawsuit. 

They also keep selling Fenix 7 and and Epix and marketing them for swimming, even though there plenty of those watches failed after pool and/or sea swimming. Not many people notice OHR issues and not many people swim. Majority use is for other purposes. Not many people use DSW and power profiles, thus those bugs wait a long time to be fixed. But morning report everyone sees, so that is talked about and paid attention to. It is a business model that works by numbers. Everyone decides for themselves where to go from there.

But pretending that there are no OHR problems currently on Garmin watches just shows how far some people will go in order to keep Garmin image in their mind intact. 

Well, finally I can only state that buying an Epix Pro gen 2 was a big fault. The software isn't working or if it was working before it became useless by software updates from garmin. It's a shame that garmin doesn't help at all, is denying and ignoring problems and is not giving any communication on when all issues will be resolved. That's unacceptable for me as a customer and especially for the price and that's going on for months!

This behavior against premium customers wouldn't happen with other companies like Apple. They know that such ignorance would destroy the believe in their quality and trust in their products.

Hopefully, all unsatisfied customers will never buy again any garmin product. Hopefully customers actually thinking about buying a garmin smartwatch are warned from the experience in this forum and garmins ignorance. And hopefully, garmin will lose a lot of money or will even be kicked out of the smartwatch market. They have really worked hard on this and they really deserve it.

Or how long should we wait until the software for an 800 € watch is working? I'm waiting now for half a year, nothing happened, it became worse! Cheers, garmin!

Vizi said:

pretending that there are no OHR problems currently on Garmin watches

No one is suggesting there are no problems with OHR for some users. There have been those for whom OHR doesn't work since the debut of OHR with the 935. And those for whom it used to work but did not after Garmin changed sensors or software. And those for whom it didn't work before a software or sensor update fixed it for them. And it has ever been thus right up to the F7 watches and others of a similar age.

Vizi said:

The same problem affects forerunner 255,265, 955, 965 users as well (besides fenix 7 and epix users), and 165

Along with users on all other watches with OHR from all other manufacturers. Nothing's changed.

Vizi said:

Garmin itself admitted that it has OHR software issues

and has never denied otherwise and has strived, and continues to do so, to resolve OHR issues for as many people as possible,

However, to expect there to be a solution that will work for 100% of users is naive in the extreme. There are just too many variables. There are inherent issues with the technology be it sensor or software. Garmin have never shied away from the deficiencies of OHR, It's always been referenced and has always been suggested that if more reliable results are required during activity then a strap should be used.

Dr Phil said:

Along with users on all other watches with OHR from all other manufacturers. Nothing's changed.

Again, you are trying to generalize specific problem that Garmin caused and acknowledged to illustrate as if it is the same situation for all watches of all manufacturers. That is not true. 

Dr Phil said:

There are inherent issues with the technology be it sensor or software.

No one is talking about inherent OHR limitation (except you in effort to change subject). Users are talking about HR issues after software updates, many of which have confirmed that their watches worked fine when they bought them. Thus, the issue is not inherent OHR limitation but something that Garmin broke and still did not fix. Moreover, many of users reporting a problem are experienced in some sports activities and if they can notice such OHR issues, they are definitely aware of OHR limitations.

Vizi said:

This thread is not about inherent limitation of OHR so you are off point.

OHR worked fine before but after software updates does not work nearly as good. Moreover, Garmin itself admitted that it has OHR software issues long time ago but failed to fix the problem. The same problem affects forerunner 255,265, 955, 965 users as well (besides fenix 7 and epix users), and 165 users are starting to notice same thing.

All what I wrote in the previous post stands.

Other manufacturers have nothing to do with this particular problem - it is problem with software updates of Garmin watches. Let's stick to the point shall we. The questions users ask are: Will Garmin fix these issues? When will Garmin fix HR accuracy issues that were introduced by its software updates? Why is Garmin so quiet about those issues based on which all relevant training metrics is calculated (garbage in=garbage out)?

In my humble opinion you're wasting your time trying to reason with this user. They're present in every thread trying to minimize or detract from the issue, often blaming user error or "inherent limitations of OHR", when according to EXTENSIVE reviews online, written and video, there are manufacturers that have their OHR on point (need I even mention Apple?). Not sure even if they even train :-)

I am really curious as to why they're whiteknighting so much for Garmin if they themselves don't experience those issues, just skip the thread and stop minimizing the issues others have by masquerading to "help" or "give helpful advice" when all you do is delay fixing this and other issues by skewing reality. 

I am aware of his default claims that there are no issues, everything works as it should, and if there are many some issues, then every other brand has them, or it must be user error, but it is definitely not Garmin's fault.

The reason I write is not because of him who idealizes Garmin, but to state facts so that other users and potential buyers can make better informed decision when considering Garmin watches. And to remind about this key topic since I consider HR accuracy key metric of the watch (besides GPS).

Adrian s said:

(need I even mention Apple?). Not sure even if they even train :-)

A simple Web search shows that this is a statement not necessarily based on facts. BTW, the same is true for Polar (or any other brand for that matter). As Garmin is the only brand offering a forum where those issues can be discussed it might seem that they are the only ones which have this issue.

Every brand states on their website the limitations of WHR/OHR.

This thread is over 2 years old i.e. these issues seem to exist inherently. Therefore I think it is prudent to mention this. Even if there is a fix in the algorithm of Garmin you will still have users experience issues.

My conclusion: if I want reliable heart rate data I have to use a chest strap. And this message is true, not matter which watch I'm using to track my activities.

I understand of course that this isn't what anybody wants to hear who has spent a lot of Euros on their equipement, but belittiling the messenger isn't going to help either.