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First OWS a total fail, well almost a total fail

avikoren1

Just completed my first OWS and here goes.  Firstly let me acknowledge that I also had OWS issues with the F6 but not prior to the F6. In other words 910xt, F3 and F5 I had no issues with OWS, my issues started with the F6 and continue with the Epix.  Also, I had GPS set to All bands plus multi, one sec recording and I wore the watch on my left hand. So, for my swim today the track looks ridiculous compared to what I actually swam, however the distance was fairly close.  This is a swim along a parallel boardwalk and should have been around 1 mile.  The Epix recorded 1925 yards which is 1.09 miles. All good there. But the track is no where near the actual track. I mean way off. Link below.  After loading the GPX to a FIT decoder, the truth comes out. During a 40 min swim, the watch only had a GPS signal for the first 2 min or so.  The rest of the approx 38 minutes, the decoder shows that there was no signal and the watch used a fixed distance per stroke algorithm and that's why the final distance is close to real.  The real issue, or the root cause of these continuous errors comes down to NOT having good GPS signal and relying on approximation algorithms, etc. By comparison if I dig up GPX files from the F3 or F5 I can clearly see that GPS signal is available 99% of the time.  This is the root cause of this issue, the newer GPS chips which consume much less power that started with the F6 and now Epix simply don't do as good of a job maintaining GPS signal in the OWS conditions. Results will vary based on used swim style but I swim a fairly standard freestyle and again, my swim style was a none issue in OWS for the 910xt, F3 and F5.  Garmin, you may not be able to do much but I would be curious of the FR945 which has a plastic housing will behave better in OWS.

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/8967810636

From the image below, I actually swam to the right much further than is shown (as far as the end of the parking lot)  and back to where I started. This track is way off.

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  • 0

    When you swim what style do you use, as it sounds like you are burying your wrist under water thus not allowing your watch to get a fix. DC Rainmaker I believe has tested it for Open Water and had no issues. Personally I haven't yet had a chance to use it, but then never had an issue with my F6x - the tracks were pretty solid, but then only use freestyle when open water swimming and make sure I lift my arm a bit more than usual.

    You may want to consider using a swim buoy and putting the watch on that instead. I also known some who put it in their swim cap. They then use HR straps with memory and sync the HR data back to the watch once out the water.

  • 0 in reply to jaamgans

    I swim freestyle.

    what do you mean burry my wrist in the water?  i would estimate that during the entry and glide, my hand/wrist is 1 to 2 inches below the surface of the water. do you keep your wrist at the water surface dung the entry/glide?

    And what do you mean lift my arm more than usual?  Do you mean during the recovery portion?

  • 0 in reply to jaamgans
    jaamgans said:
    You may want to consider using a swim buoy and putting the watch on that instead. I also known some who put it in their swim cap. They then use HR straps with memory and sync the HR data back to the watch once out the water.

    But that doesn’t solve the problem that some people have. Like you I rarely have any problems with open water swimming but there is a small number of people posting in the forums who apparently cannot get a good swim from their watches. Putting watches in swim floats or under caps is not a solution. It’s a workaround. 

  • 0 in reply to Dr Phil

    The other option is for them to change their swim style as this is generally the cause - there isn't much Garmin can do about the fact that GPS doesn't work under water. So until someone can create a GPS that works under water you are left with with your stroke style, putting on a swim buoy and or in your cap.

    I personally find it very encouraging that at least the distance estimate was fairly accurate (seen this on the odd occasion with the F6x when it had GPS hiccups that it would still derive an appropriate estimate of distance). 

  • 0 in reply to avikoren1

    its more about how you treat your arm when its out of water - there is nothing you can do in water. So it may be better to change wrist if you always breath on your right side, and then is when you arm is likely to be highest out the water and most likely to get best fix. when I am in a pool (no GPS) I tend to *** my elbow more as it my stroke comes out the water keeping my hand reasonably low, however when I am in open water using GPS I tend to try not to cick (replace i with o - as just got stars once posted - suppose it doesn't help when the same paragraph also has stroke) my arm more and use a much higher less bent stroke (especially helps if the waves a high). As I often tend to breath on the right a lot more I also swop my watch to that wrist as I know it will be lifted higher and be out longer when I take a breath on that side, as I breath about 5:1 on that side when doing longer distances and not in the pool (lazy I know but don't think changing style helps either)..

  • 0 in reply to jaamgans

    with regard to garmin not able to detect gps under water,  etc i would normally agree except for the fact that with my freestyle method, the 910xt, f3 and f5 had no issues with gps during ows. so something changed with f6 and now epix, my swim is the same. btw, what changed is they went with low power gps chips, which i like for battery consumption but it may have come with a cost to performance.  i breathe on my left and wear my watch on my left wrist. with the f6 i did have better results when i wore the watch on my right wrist. that will be my next experiment. 

  • 0 in reply to avikoren1
    avikoren1 said:
    breathe on my left and wear my watch on my left wrist

    I breathe bilaterally more than anything else so that's possibly part of the conundrum as I am aware of a change in arm movement depending which side I am breathing too. 

    avikoren1 said:
    what changed is they went with low power gps chips, which i like for battery consumption but it may have come with a cost to performance

    Although some continue to push the belief that performance suffered on the Fenix 6, that is most definitely not the case with F7/Epix. My wife has the budget F7 without All+Multiband whereas I have the Sapphire Solar. Despite her swimming at a much slower pace with a much slower stroke rate (2:45 - 3:00/100m and 25spm) than me (2:10/100m, 31spm) she records tracks that are realistic and distance that accords with the swim buoys we have. 

    However, GPS chips aside, what did change, and continues to change, are the algorithms and methods used to 'smooth' out the swim and better (or not for some) determine distance, pace, and direction. And as has always been the case with OWS and Garmin, there are winners and losers unfortunately when something gets changed. 

    As has been said before, if there is nothing wrong with the watch, then there must be something awry with the swimming style. Would it be better with another brand? Possibly so but while somebody posting here recommends Suunto, I also know somebody who had a Suunto who couldn't swim with it but can with Garmin. Go figure!

  • 0 in reply to Dr Phil

    I have the SS base Epix 2 and prior to it I used a Garmin Swim 2   I have just had 4 OWS in the lake using 'all systems ' as it doesn't have the multi band but find it extremely accurate especially the distance (measured the mile out with the car when lake was frozen). Much better than the Swim 2. Love that I also get water temperature