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Training Status Unproductive - decreasing fitness, increasing load

PRBrody
over 8 years ago
Hi:

I'd love to get some insights from people who are more expert on the analysis that Garmin has done around training. I'm training for an Ironman and I'm mixing cardio training with HIIT, endurance work, and strength training.

On Saturday, I did a 70 mile ride and then a six mile run. After that, my watch said my training is unproductive. I don't have a power meter on my bike, so I'm wondering if the watch is only really looking at my heart rate and GPS on the running. Naturally, after a 70 mile ride, the kind of run I'm going to do is going to be of a lower performance than what I'd do if I was fresh.

Should I ignore this or am I doing something fundamentally wrong in my training (keeping in mind I'm a newbie to Ironmans - have done one half only before).

Two related issues:

1. I also observed that my VO2 max declined from 54 on Fenix 3HR to 49 on the 5X.
2. To what extent do the Garmin algorithms care about strength training, where you're not doing cardio.

Thanks all for your insights.
  • 0 over 8 years ago
    Vo2MAX takes some time to get "dialed in" when you start using a new device (or after a hard reset); it will typically read low while that is taking place.
  • 0 over 8 years ago
    Hi:

    I'd love to get some insights from people who are more expert on the analysis that Garmin has done around training. I'm training for an Ironman and I'm mixing cardio training with HIIT, endurance work, and strength training.

    On Saturday, I did a 70 mile ride and then a six mile run. After that, my watch said my training is unproductive. I don't have a power meter on my bike, so I'm wondering if the watch is only really looking at my heart rate and GPS on the running. Naturally, after a 70 mile ride, the kind of run I'm going to do is going to be of a lower performance than what I'd do if I was fresh.

    Should I ignore this or am I doing something fundamentally wrong in my training (keeping in mind I'm a newbie to Ironmans - have done one half only before).

    Two related issues:

    1. I also observed that my VO2 max declined from 54 on Fenix 3HR to 49 on the 5X.
    2. To what extent do the Garmin algorithms care about strength training, where you're not doing cardio.

    Thanks all for your insights.


    With respect to #2 as far as I can tell Garmin doesn't care at all about strength training. The watch is specifically designed to monitor cardio fitness. If you wear it during strength training it will record the activity and you'll certainly get credit for the aerobic and anaerobic value of that activity, and thus this gets factored into your training load, but it doesn't give you "credit" as far as I can tell for getting stronger.
  • 0 over 8 years ago
    Training Load

    Hi

    open the app go to the training status page and touch the help on the top right corner it give you a list of all the indicators.

    Unproductive is your load is high but your fitness is decreasing, your body is strugglinfg to recover, need to do some recovery rides and runs to allow your fitness to come back or take a couple of days off.

    hope this helps
    mark
  • 0 over 8 years ago
    Hi

    open the app go to the training status page and touch the help on the top right corner it give you a list of all the indicators.

    Unproductive is your load is high but your fitness is decreasing, your body is strugglinfg to recover, need to do some recovery rides and runs to allow your fitness to come back or take a couple of days off.

    hope this helps
    mark


    My fear is that the Garmin system is comparing a run after a 70 mile bike ride with a run when I'm fresh and decided my fitness is decreasing when it isn't.
  • 0 over 8 years ago
    whats is your training load figure? the last 7 day nimber on the fenix

    mark
  • 0 over 8 years ago
    whats is your training load figure? the last 7 day nimber on the fenix

    mark
  • 0 over 8 years ago
    My experience with the Training Status function after using the 5X for 29 consecutive days is that, once "dialed in", the watch displays a VERY accurate estimate of my condition...
  • 0 over 8 years ago
    Yeah, me too.

    I've been a bit "punky" the last couple of weeks and the watch picked it up within a couple of days and flagged me as "unproductive" -- it also caught a "peaking" state a few weeks back which was then validated over the next two weekends with back-to-back PRs.

    I'd say it works pretty good and suspect that you'll find in the fullness of time it proves to be right.
  • Former Member
    0 Former Member over 8 years ago
    I've had my F5X for 3 weeks now. The first week, the Training Status widget was neat and useful. For the past 2 weeks, it's had nothing to say but "unproductive." It's said this as my training load has gone up, down, and stayed flat.

    During this time, the watch has auto-detected an improved FTP twice. After my first ride it estimated my VO2max to be 5 points higher than my F3 had it, and it quickly "fell" to what the F3 had for me. I assume it's the falling VO2max value that makes it think my fitness is decreasing.

    I'm not really sure how to proceed.

    My fear is that the Garmin system is comparing a run after a 70 mile bike ride with a run when I'm fresh and decided my fitness is decreasing when it isn't.


    Garmin calculates running VO2max by pace/hr. As far as I know, there are no adjustments or allowances for fatigue. From my experience it sure seems like VO2max is the watch's understanding of your fitness.
  • 0 over 8 years ago
    My F5X (which I've had for about a month) has been pretty spot on with the performance metrics.

    Even the VO2Max from the watch was exactly as per my recent VO2Max lab test.