Training Status Unproductive - decreasing fitness, increasing load

Hi:

I'd love to get some insights from people who are more expert on the analysis that Garmin has done around training. I'm training for an Ironman and I'm mixing cardio training with HIIT, endurance work, and strength training.

On Saturday, I did a 70 mile ride and then a six mile run. After that, my watch said my training is unproductive. I don't have a power meter on my bike, so I'm wondering if the watch is only really looking at my heart rate and GPS on the running. Naturally, after a 70 mile ride, the kind of run I'm going to do is going to be of a lower performance than what I'd do if I was fresh.

Should I ignore this or am I doing something fundamentally wrong in my training (keeping in mind I'm a newbie to Ironmans - have done one half only before).

Two related issues:

1. I also observed that my VO2 max declined from 54 on Fenix 3HR to 49 on the 5X.
2. To what extent do the Garmin algorithms care about strength training, where you're not doing cardio.

Thanks all for your insights.

Top Replies

Former Member over 5 years ago in reply to Former Member +2

I agree. I went from Productive to unproductive after a hard ride. Ended up taking the following four days off and still unproductive. Rode two easy days- unproductive. Took another two days off and rode…

All Replies

0 PRBrody over 8 years ago

whats is your training load figure? the last 7 day nimber on the fenix

mark

293 is the Training Load for the last 7 days.

0 cjcates007_ over 8 years ago

I agree it's not accurate! After a 50 mile mountain race with heart rate averaging a high aerobic number, it said my Recovery Time was 31 hours! Then I did a fast tempo run after 4 days rest, then a trail run the next day followed by a short interval session later that day, and now says my VO2 max dropped 2 points and UNPRODUCTIVE training with Fitness going down! Gimme a break Garmin! My Suunto Ambit3 gave me a 81 hour recovery time last summer after a 50k, which I find extremely accurate...

0 PRBrody over 8 years ago

"High" Load, Increasing Fitness

I agree it's not accurate! After a 50 mile mountain race with heart rate averaging a high aerobic number, it said my Recovery Time was 31 hours! Then I did a fast tempo run after 4 days rest, then a trail run the next day followed by a short interval session later that day, and now says my VO2 max dropped 2 points and UNPRODUCTIVE training with Fitness going down! Gimme a break Garmin! My Suunto Ambit3 gave me a 81 hour recovery time last summer after a 50k, which I find extremely accurate...

I've given the watch a bit more time to gather up my numbers, and here's what I've learned:
- the watch measures your "fitness" based on VO2 max as far as I can tell
- If you don't have a power meter on your bike, you have to get from from running
- The system doesn't take into account if you've done a big bike ride before run on the same day

After being told my fitness was declining, I did a run a few days later but I did it first thing in the morning before I did anything else. It showed my run performance as very good and raised my VO2 Max from 49 to 50. Now even though my training load is "high" (382, in the red zone), it says my fitness is increasing.

I think in general the recovery times might be too short and the watch is too quick to rate your fitness as improving or decreasing.

0 dkoukou over 8 years ago

Interesting, my "green zone" training load is somewhere between 650 and 1100 (the upper limit may be a bit higher).
I think the Training Status is a dynamic estimation that takes into account much more than just a mere VO2max calculation. I've always thought that previous generations of Garmin watches used to grossly overestimate my recovery hours for example. But so far all my estimates feel just right and correlate exactly to how i am feeling.

0 Former Member over 8 years ago

Getting an aerobic training effect of 3+ changes your training status from unproductive to productive. Instantly. My status hasn't changed from productive in about a week, I'm not sure what would trigger a change.

Training load seems pretty good. I did a little too much late last week and over the weekend, the watch had my load in the red about when I started to feel like it's too much, I've been feeling beat since.

0 PRBrody over 8 years ago

ha! You might be a bit more fit than me. I get workout points for making from the couch to the kitchen.

0 MarkusGL over 8 years ago

Hi, I'm a little bit confused:

If my widget shows "Recovery" Fitness "->" and Load "down",
What does it mean? That what I'm doing now is mantaining my Fitness and that I decreased the Load, or that to improve, in my next activities, I should mantain my Fitness and decrease my Load ?

Thank you!

0 dkoukou over 8 years ago

Getting an aerobic training effect of 3+ changes your training status from unproductive to productive. Instantly. My status hasn't changed from productive in about a week, I'm not sure what would trigger a change.

Not from my experience.
A few weeks ago i went jogging three times in five days with a colleague that wants to get into running because he wanted some (relatively) experienced company.
We jogged for an hour every time and then i went on running for about 20 mins at an easy pace. Aerobic Training Effect was reported afterwards as 2,8-3,1-3,2. I thought my fitness level would not have changed after just three (very) easy sessions. However, the watch reported that my fitness was decreasing and my estimated VO2 max took a hit. A few days later i attempted a monthly performed timed effort in a well-known route and -surprise!- i was fifty seconds slower than last time.
I was doubtful at the beginning but now i firmly believe the advisor works very well.

0 dkoukou over 8 years ago

ha! You might be a bit more fit than me. I get workout points for making from the couch to the kitchen.

Doubt it-i could never compete with an Ironman-worthy triathlete :)

@MarkusGL: it means your fitness is maintained but your load has decreased. If you go that route for a few more days it will eventually display "fitness decreasing".

0 Former Member over 8 years ago

Not from my experience.
A few weeks ago i went jogging three times in five days with a colleague that wants to get into running because he wanted some (relatively) experienced company.
We jogged for an hour every time and then i went on running for about 20 mins at an easy pace. Aerobic Training Effect was reported afterwards as 2,8-3,1-3,2. I thought my fitness level would not have changed after just three (very) easy sessions. However, the watch reported that my fitness was decreasing and my estimated VO2 max took a hit. A few days later i attempted a monthly performed timed effort in a well-known route and -surprise!- i was fifty seconds slower than last time.
I was doubtful at the beginning but now i firmly believe the advisor works very well.

So it's more involved than I realized. Thanks for filling in some detail.

How often does your training status change? Mine has been "productive" since I did a hill repeat workout Thursday evening, I haven't done any serious exercise since Saturday morning which was a 3.1 aerobic TE.