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Probably my last Garmin

AJRykala
over 4 years ago

Well, there's a turn for the books. I've been vocal in the past defending Garmin but as people have noticed I've been largely silent on the forums. I've been busy, using my Fenix 5x+, and rapidly coming to the conclusion I'd have probably been better off buying the Suunto 9 for my needs. In fact, my plan is to start saving throughout 2020 to see how Suunto do with a replacement for the 9 and to be honest if it comes with maps I'll be all over it like a bad rash.

The decision is multi-fold, and is based on

Perception of Value.

Look at the Forerunner 245 First beat page at https://www.firstbeat.com/en/consumer-product/garmin/forerunner-245/ - it has 11 Firstbeat Metrics. I have a 5x+, and their page lists (https://www.firstbeat.com/en/consumer-product/garmin/fenix-5-plus/) 12. So I paid 3 times as much fo a watch whose feature set is not matched by it's perceived value. And add in tthe fact the 245/945 have seen a large degree of firmware changes over the period since their launch. Compare that to the f5+ series where new features have been largely absent.

For those of us who bought the F5+ series, we bought what we perceived as a premium brand. Especially the x+. But I think this iteration of the Fenix was only ever meant to be a stopgap to get them to the 6, and to be honestif Garmin are going to a more rapid turnover of iterations of the Fenix - this problem will only get worse.

It's obvious the 5+ series is now legacy. If you CAN get an answer from Garmin (via Twitter, or other social media) you get a boilerplate reply that "we're unsure of future plans, please email our customer idea's team at [email protected]" - an email address that seems to pipe to /dev/null for all I can tell as I've never had an answer. But that leads to plausible doubt, because A definite answer that "Sorry no new features will be backported to the plus series" will annoy people.

For a premium watch, even if the new UI changes didn't come - body battery, PacePro and the like should be on a premium device.

Looking at the recent S9 update notes we see

2.9.42

This update brings new features, added performance enhancements as well as some fixes

New features

  • Fitness level estimation from running and walking sports (VO2Max)
  • Sleep quality assessment
  • Stress level and body resources graph
  • Automatically adjusted time zone from Suunto app

Enhancements and fixes

  • In watch guidance tips for altitude and first exercise to help get the best performance from your watch
  • Improved GPS tracking accuracy with new GPS firmware

If Suunto can add new Firstbeat metrics to existing watches, it sort of blows out of the water the excuse that the metrics can't be licensed to existing devices.

The one new 'feature' of the 5x+ is the SpO2 sensor. Well, to be honest if you told me it was a red led linked to a random number generator I'd believe you. The ONLY thing it links into is sleep tracking, and in my tests the only difference between having it on and off during sleep tracking is you get better battery life when it's off!

And battery life, while good, is not really what they promise. And looking at what Suunto is doing with FusedTrack really is turning my head

Perception of life.

9.74. Oh boy where do I start. I don't care that it was a beta, someone at Q&A was asleep at the wheel when they launched a firmware (beta or not) whose core functionality was so radically broken it predicted relativistic running stats.If I was a Q&A manager I'd be looking at sacking people for allowing that out. How the hell didn't anyone actually test that running (for a running watch) was broken!

Perhaps this explains why their seems to be no new features coming to the 5+ series if they're having difficulties keeping the core functionality working..

One common perception with Garmin's was it was worth buying the previous generation as the software was better baked compare to the newer ones but looking at the 6 forums it's no better there. And the only 6 I fancy, the 6x Solar, is seemingly unavailable. Battery life is the thing for me as I do longer and longer distances and even with the clusterf*** of software issues Suunto have with SportstrackerMovescount the fact is the last S(baro firmware update did bake in new features they'd introduced to the S3 and 5, and even Polar have added new features.

Confusing product line

Adding this as I forgot. A work colleague asked me for advice on what Garmin to buy. They were confused and had read about 35, 45 ,245, 235, Vivoactive, 645, 735... in the end we brainstormed but in her own words, she bought a Polar Ignite as it was clear what it did.

Garmin really need to look at clearing tne lines a little and looking at the confusion. Is the 645 better than the 245 she asked? Well, yes and no... You can understand the confusion

So my plan is to save as I said, and in 2020 see where Suunto are in comaprison to Garmin.

It's even more galling for me as I've argued with many forum members (forerunner springs to mind mate!) and then to find I actually agree with them. I'm coming to the conclusion that next year I'll buy something like a Huawei Watch GT 2 for day to day steps,247 HR and then a Suunto 9 for actually training and races. The only true thing I'll miss is maps but thats what a handheld GPS can do, or my phone which has a massive battery and I now have a wireless 8000mah powerbank to take with me on long runs/races

  • 0 over 4 years ago

    I'll add it sort of rubs our nose in it as well to have PacePro on GCM visible -why is this not hidden from us? Ditto the fact that Exercise Load is shown on the website and there's no sign of where that ties in.

  • 0 over 4 years ago

    So for example what the hell is this!

  • 0 over 4 years ago

    I cannot upvote this as much as it deserves.

    As soon as any other manufacturers wearable hardware compares to Garmin’s then I’ll be leaving them behind. Wahoo are already there with cycling computers, and it’s interesting to note the contrast in new features being released to older devices there.... 

    But Garmin’s appalling lack of customer centricity was best exemplified by their shambolic handling (and unforgivable silence on) of the recent Garmin Connect for iOS syncing issue. They broke the app, denied they’d broken it, tried to blame Apple, then after two weeks released an update that fixed it. And at no point apologised or publicly acknowledge the facts. Individual customers, those of us who persistently escalated the issue, eventually received private acknowledgment and boilerplate “apologies for any inconvenience this may have caused” (“may have” being the classic non-apology apology language). 

    You’re also right that their story around the FirstBeat metrics doesn’t stack up. And changes depending on who you talk to. Physio True up doesn’t work. Apple Health distance sync has been broken for months and months, despite repeated claims that the latest release has fixed it. Some metrics are rendered useless if you own both a watch and a cycling computer. No ability to add strength exercises. Metric system isn't properly implemented work for strength exercises and when I asked about it they said that it would be “too complicated” to implement because of the conversion (no answer to the question: why can they do it for body weight and for distance...) and that they “cannot provide for every single individual use case”. 

    A shame, but they show us no loyalty, so we owe them none either. 

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to lj50

    I just find the whole 'too complex to implement the metric system' sounds like a comedy skit!! But ultimately not surprising. I forgot about the Apple health thing as I've just swapped to Android but yeah that's a pretty good example of the lack of care

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to lj50

    Ultimately it would be nice if Garmin would provide a concise answer as to their plans for the plus. For the money people pay for these watches some clarity would be nice

  • 0 over 4 years ago

    Hi,

    weeks ago I wrote the same you did now. I got hard critics especially by you. Now you see what I said weeks ago.

    Garmin fu..... ed the F5plus users hard and is laughing loud about this crazy stupid people.

    I wear the second Garmin, my wife her first. We own a scale from them too.

    Now what shall we do ? Put ut in a basket and buy something new ? Ok. but what ?

    A friend of mine owns the Suunto 9. I would not be my watch. By function and by look and feel.

    Regards Richard

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to Richy

    I've borrowed a Suunto 9 and whilst it's certainly not ideal, for my long distance runs it certainly does what I want  More so than Polar anyway but yeah I've been more and more disheartened by Garmin who have put more focus into other devices and ignored the premium devices

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to AJRykala

    My 5+ does exactly as advertised when I bought it, and then some.

    Sure, it's irritating that the model was replaced by a new flagship a little more than a year after - but hey, isn't that really just the name of the game in electronics nowadays?

    After all, the 5+ was really only a "facelift" version of the 5, on the way to a whole new generation of watches?

    Also, even if we don't get new features, it's not like Garmin has cut off the support for the 5+ - we still get FW updates once in a while. Sure, they fix some and break some, but that's more of a general issue not unique for the 5+.

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to SAHO

    It's not so much the replacement by the six that has really irked me, but the fact the 245 is getting feature after feature update and is a 1/3rd of the price. There's a very strong perception that the plus series is now dead weight, and I see no compelling reason why the watch is getting zero updates when Garmin are focussing a lot of attention on the 245/945.

    And if the FW updates fixed bugs then I wouldn't mind. But the quality of those in recent times has declined.

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to SAHO

    And in comparison, recently both Polar and Suunto have announced new features in updates for their higher spec watches (Vantage V and Suunto 9) - and in Suunto's case SPECIFICALLY adding extra features originally launched in newer, lower spec models (3 and 5). It reinforces the idea of getting value in buying the more premium devices, helps keep the range clearly defined and knowing their place in the watch hierarchy for each product.

    With the plus series now, there is NO reason at all to buy a 5+ or 5S+ when there are better specced models at lower prices, and even the 5x+ is looking a poor decision - short of ruggedness, what else defines it? 

    Garmin's current direction seems very very muddled with a plethora of models all with overlap in weird areas, and cheaper models being better specced then more expensive ones. For example, why buy a 645 over a 245 right now?