When you do a slow run do you get "Unproductive" status in Garmin Connect Reports?

ImDisaster said:

Productive/Unproductive is about increasing performance condition, ie. VO2max.  Exercises that don't push the heart rate don't do that so by that definition they are "unproductive."

Nice theory. And wrong.

I get positive performance condition in many of my runs at low intensity, less than 70% of my max. HR.

Yes wrong, but also kind of correct if you look beyond the slight confusion of terms...

Sure, you can have a positive performance condition during a slow run because the watch also calculates VO2max from sub-max efforts. But your slow run probably won't increase your VO2max, the positive PC just means you are performing better (at any given intensity) that the watch "expects" based on your previously recorded VO2max,

I believe if you continue to do only slow runs the performance condition would eventually zero out, and status would probably change to 'Maintaining' You only get  'Productive' when the Fitness component (recorded VO2max basically) of training status is increasing, together with stable or increasing load.

SAHO said:

But your slow run probably won't increase your VO2max, the positive PC just means you are performing better that the watch "expects" based on your previously recorded VO2max

Yes, I know. But you are missing my point about why the previous poster was really, really wrong:

The performance condition is not an attempt at predicting whether this run was contributing positively to your training of VO2Max.

The performance condition is an an attempt of estimating your current VO2Max (relatively to your previously recorded VO2Max). 

There is a huge difference between these two approaches. The previous poster based his reply on the first approach.

Yes, I agree totally with you.

And that's what I meant by slight confusion of terms - the way I read it he's confusing PC and VO2max.

What he was right about though - is that to have productive status you need increasing VO2max, and to have increasing VO2max you have to put some intensity into your training mix :)

So wait ... are you guys saying that slow runs (mandatory in most training programs) will actually cause a drop in Garmin's calculated VO2max?

And if so ... are Garmin's calculations reflecting what is actually happening physiologically ("you're getting in worse shape because you're running slowly!"), or are they erroneous?

Thanks for insight!

alexis said:

So wait ... are you guys saying that slow runs (mandatory in most training programs) will actually cause a drop in Garmin's calculated VO2max?

For many of us, it does.

For some, it is the opposite: A run at high intensity will cause their PC to be lower than usually, and may cause a reduction in reported VO2Max.

I would not consider it an error, but rather a sign that the relationship between relative intensity and HR data doesn't follow exactly the same curve for all of us. So when the Firstbeat algorithm tries to predict a maximal effort based on data from a submaximal effort, the accuracy of the result will depend on how close you are to the standard curve. 

alexis said:

And if so ... are Garmin's calculations reflecting what is actually happening physiologically ("you're getting in worse shape because you're running slowly!"), or are they erroneous?

Once again:  They are intended to reflect the best estimate of the VO2Max you have right now. They are not intended to reflect, what will happen to your VO2Max in the future as a consequence of your session.

Thanks for the responses, folks.

I'm realizing how divorced "Training Status" and "VO2max" can be from my actual perceived training effect.

Last 2 weeks I was in Wisconsin - max temp 70 degrees, fairly flat, not too humid, perfect running conditions. While there I ran my fastest 10 mile ever,,twice, along with other runs. Garmin "rewarded me" with "Productive" run labels, and an extra VO2max point. The conditions were so nice that I really felt pretty good at the end of the runs, meaning, I could have given it some more.

Returned back home to South Texas - temps 95 degrees when running, very humid, very hilly. I am killing myself on runs here, e.g., I did an eight mile hilly run in these conditions, 0:45 min/mile slower, and I was absolutely friggin' dragging at the end ... a *much* harder workout IMO than last week's 10 miler(i.e., today was two miles shorter) in ideal conditions.

But despite how I felt about today's run, Garmin gave me a "Non-productive", and took away a V02 max point, presumably because I was going slower for a given HR.

(Does Garmin even consider whether a course was hilly vs flat in determining "Productive" or not, or calculating VO2max points?).

Anyway, I'm not really sure how useful it is to check these values any more. I'll probably just believe them when they improve and I look good, and call them garbage when I don't