MK1 Warning

So I just updated one of my staff’s MK1 (Ti) and I got an interesting message that popped up. 

ARE YOU SERIOUS????? A customer spends $1k+ on this watch and this Garmin watch now has this garbage warning 2+ years AFTER release. It’s abundantly obvious they have no confidence in their product. You want people to buy your MK2 knowing this?

I sell tons of Dive Computers and I’ve never ONCE seen this type of message.

WTH...

  • Please show me my post where I said that I stopped using their products...? I’ll wait.

    In fact, I’m wearing the Tactix Delta Solar right now, along with looking at my Tactical Instinct Solar from a distance. Thanks for your concern Wink

    I have an issue with the way Garmin has handled the Mk1, nothing more, nothing less and I’m more than qualified to provide criticism when needs be. 

    I posted this topic due to the nature of the content. I’m sorry if you or NRA don’t see what I posted as problematic, but it is. 

    This product is rated EN13319 and based off of the Decompression Model Buhlmann ZHL16C, so after all that, it’s still going to “fail to provide accurate information” and this shouldn’t be discussed? Sorry, you’re both wrong and Garmin’s silence on this is deafening.

  • OK... I'll bite...

    https://forums.garmin.com/outdoor-recreation/outdoor-recreation/f/descent-mk1/156516/mk2-descent

    "I’m more than qualified to talk about the Descent because up until a month ago, I had 2 versions of the watch, since January of 2018. I stopped selling them.."

    So you don't have them, nor do you sell them. In fact:

     

     
    "My opinion still stands with this watch and I for one will not buy the next version and will not bring the unit into my store."
     
    So you've said you won't buy it, nor will it get into your store. More than once:
     
    "... will NOT be buying the Mk2 or bringing them into my store”
     
    But then again you like to have self conflicting arguments:
     
    "Now, I have the Shearwater Teric (with AI) myself and have had the Mk1. "
     
    "I never bring in AI computers into my store as people lose connection often. “
      
    "Personally, as an Instructor I choose to dive with a non-air intergrated computer as I can’t afford to have issues with my gear while with students.”
     
    "I have used them and even tested out an AI Shearwater Perdix recently that I had issues with while in the pool. Great computer, but I’ll lose the and just stick to the wrist (no AI). “
     
    I'm sure you'll respond with your resume (again), but to use your own comments:
     
    "I don’t care who may get offended by my opinions, if I state something (in relation to this field), then I know I’m right.”
      
    "In fact DAN did a study on reported accidents and found that more “Master Divers” were injuried than basic and Advanced (cockiness always takes over) together.”
     
    Sounds like you're the cocky one.
     
    But this makes sense... you preach backups, safety first, you're an instructor so you always have your student safety as priority. But then:
     
    "A few years ago, I was diving with a Proplus 3.0 (this is what changed my mind) that malfunctioned and my screen went blank at the beginning of the dive but since I was training, I couldn’t come up. I knew my SAC rate for the depth I was at so I had a generalized time but afterwards, I said never again will I dive with an all digital computer.”
     
    Your (presumably) only computer failed while you had (presumably) multiple trainees under your supervision and care. You had a complete failure of your dive computer, and decided to ignore this dangerous situation because you guessed at your current situation and risked yours and their lives. Honestly, what a missed teaching moment... you had a perfect opportunity to use this as an example of how you handle the inevitable equipment failure... but instead you guessed at your SAC rate and took a great risk. If you had planned your dive with tables like we did in the "olden days" then this would have been a perfect time to show your students why... or to show them how, with this equipment failure, to safely abort a dive. (I am sure there are missing details from the comment, in fairness, but the comment is all I have to go on).
     
    Again, I am sure you'll respond with your resume, but again, why are you here to complain about a watch you don't own, don't sell, and don't intend on selling or owning the next version? It just feels like you're whining for the sake of it. Especially when you are whining about what is obviously a CMA by Garmin's lawyers.
     
    (Sorry for formatting, forum tools aren't great).
  • I think a current or former user may think about it. Must / shouldn't please everyone.
  • I find it really funny that you (an anonymous troll) actually spent time to do all of that but you looked like dum dum in your previous post which is why you went out of your way to “try” to discredit me. I didn’t look, but did you actually find a post of mine that said I wasn’t using any Garmin products anymore Mr. Anonymous like you said before?

    I briefly skimmed through it and noticed you mentioned the Teric and AI. You’re right, I don’t like wireless AI but from a retail standpoint (if you understood anything about business), your students want to buy what their Instructor is wearing, easy $1400 sale. Get it now Mr. Anonymous?!?!

    Aside from that, get out of my thread and this applies to any other troll as well. I’m legitimately trying to get clarification on what message Garmin put on their watches as it’s a very dangerous message.

    Thanks in advance Wink

  • I don't have to discredit you... you do that to yourself well enough with your contradictory statements. You now say you wear AI computers so you can sell them when you've said previous you don't wear them and never bring them in your store.

    But no worries mate, I'll leave "your" public thread on this public forum. You obviously are here to just whine, and can't take criticism. 

  • Odie, myself, and others have been here since the release of the Descent Mk1. We have been through all of the issues, made suggestions to Garmin for improvements, documented issues/problems, and tried to prod Garmin to better support this product. When the Descent first came out it was borderline unsafe it had so many software issues, but we continued to press Garmin to correct them. The pace of updates has been glacial at best, the communications from Garmin have been largely non-existent. 

    I am also a dive instructor, and initially recommended this product to my students. Though now can no longer recommend it due to the poor support from Garmin. Does this make me anti-Garmin? No, it just means I am not a huge fan of how Garmin has supported and developed the Descent. 

  • I've had the Descent for about a year and a half and initially I was concerned because it's really just a souped up Fenix 3 HR. I was especially concerned whether the buttons would remain watertight. But after about 100 dives I've found it to be reliable and versatile above and below water. So my feelings about the Descent have evolved in a different direction than yours. I still would not use just the descent, but I find it to be the perfect backup to my Perdix.

  • I am fine with using it as a backup now, still do not fully trust it based on my experience and the complete lack of any transparency from Garmin. I use the Perdix AI as my primary, AI is great for Sidemount as it allows me to see both tank pressures with a quick glance

  • I upgraded my Mk1 to 10.40 a couple of weeks ago and did not receive this message.

    If I had received the message I would not have been too worried because I already knew it.  Any dive computer can "fail to provide accurate information during your dive" and I've had computers where they did actually fail to provide accurate information during my dive.  It is a legal disclaimer.

    Note that it says "fail to provide accurate information" and not "may provide inaccurate information".  There's a difference. If the computer fails completely (which appears "acceptable" to some in this tread), then obviously it is failing to provide accurate information.

    That's exactly what my Atom 3.0 has done on two occasions (and now is unrepairable).  At the start of the dive it went into error mode and while it provided depth information, it failed to provide me with accurate NDL, dive time, gas pressure, etc.  There were numerous other times when it would reset itself mid dive and so fail to provide me with accurate dive time and NDL.

    Now, what is "accurate" information, anyway?  The algorithm(s) used by dive computers are approximations at best.  Sure they may have theory behind them, but they will only ever provide a best guess based on certain parameters and can no way take into account variations in physiology between people or any other factors not in the realm of the dive computer (hydration, fitness, preexisting conditions).  I would say that NO dive computer could ever accurately determine the absolutely safe NDL for any dive which is why we are taught to be conservative.

    As to other "inaccurate" information, I know my Mk1 often provides inaccurate temperature information (at least since 10.10).  What it displays doesn't match what it logs (so one has to be inaccurate).  The logged temperature closely matches my other computers so it is the display temperature that is often inaccurate.

    The depth data on my Mk1 always matches that on my Perdix and same goes for NDL (within a minute or two).  Are they "accurate"? Who knows?  At least they are consistent.