Updates

I had gone back and forth about whether to post this type of topic, fully knowing that 1. It would not be a popular topic and 2. That I’m sure I’ll get some negative feedback for doing so (if not a deleted topic). Well, I’ve never been one to shy away from making an unpopular decision, so here we go.

The Descent Mk1 was released in Jan ’18, where its sibling the 5x was released in Q1 ’17 and the Tactix Charlie was released in March ’18. I’m specifically mentioning these watches because they’re part of the same family, in fact it’s even mentioned on the Descent Mk1 page that this watch had all of the best features of its sibling the 5x (as stated on Garmin’s website): “offering the best features of our f?nix® 5Xultimate multisport GPS watch”. Ok, so the watch release timeline is done.

Back on 11/13 we received an email stating that a “simple software update was coming soon” for the Descent Mk1 and it specifically mentioned adding CCR support. I’m sure that there would have been other “updates” that go along with this “simple software update” but none were mentioned. Well, it’s now 12/22, well over a month since that Black Friday “we want to sell more watches” email… and no update. The last update for the Descent Mk1 was on 8/23…4 months ago. Meanwhile, it’s “siblings” have since received updates to enable Galileo, native Sunrise/Sunset widget, ALT. Time zone widget, Explore App Support and many other updates that have been available for these models since June/July (yes CIQ exists but the widgets, etc are slow and quite frankly poor as opposed to the baked in items). Yet the most expensive “base” Garmin model has been the least supported watch since its release.

Now, I had spoken to a Garmin employee via PM about the last of support/updates for this watch and after going back and forth, it was insinuated that I wanted a rushed product, yada, yada, yada. I by no means want a rushed product but when a Garmin employee that didn’t have to pay anything and/or full price for a $1k watch says something like that, it really burns my britches. I knew buying this watch that it wouldn’t have the “beta” side of updates. I understood that as this watch was geared towards a Life Support Sport and Garmin had to take a slower road to updates. I understood that. But the path to updates to bring it seemly closer to its siblings has not only been slow, but at a snail’s pace (I reported in January an issue with the Diving Compass pointing only to True North and not Magnetic North and it took them over 3 months to come out with an update to fix it). This would be different if this watch was solely designed for diving. I don’t wait for monthly updates for my Shearwater Perdix, Sherwood Wisdom 3, Sherwood Profile, Oceanic PP3, etc. I don’t expect monthly updates for the Mk1 but maybe even communication from Garmin reps that I know visit this forum giving us a “generalized” timeline of what’s to come would be appreciated. When you call Garmin’s Customer Support, they do an EXCELLENT job with handling issues. Unfortunately the representation on the Garmin forums though is nowhere near the same and quite frankly needs to be vastly improved.

Ok, to wrap up this long post. I know that once changes are done, they have to be tested. But I’ve wondered why a company like Garmin couldn’t do updates to other parts of this watches software without keeping it separate from 3-4 diving activities.

Are we a bit spoiled at seeing other watches have more frequent updates? Yes we are. Is it realistic to think the Mk1 can be the same? No. But when you are months and months behind models that are a1+ years older than yours, you start to wonder has the how serious are they taking this? When they do eventually update the watch, how many more or how much longer will they continue to support the watch when the Mk2 is already in the pipeline? They seem to only support watches for about 1 ½ - 2 years, as that’s fine, I understand that. Nothing lasts forever. I was told that I was in the minority that no one else was like me when it came to updates. This particular Garmin employee was wrong, as I also am a Garmin Dealer and I sold over 15 of these Descent’s to my customers, some of them that have come to ME to inquire about it since I sold it to them. These customers visit this forum but do not have a desire to post. This post is for them and anyone else frustrated by this process, not me. Due to the response from Garmin employee, I have since sold my Ti Descent Mk1. I have nothing to gain from this but I do feel for the other that has spent their hard earned money on this watch. Does the watch work? Yes it does, but could it be better within the construct of the Fenix 5 ecosystem?

Yes…

/end of rant

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0 atj777 over 5 years ago

Is the lack of communications any different for any other Garmin product? In my experience with the Forerunner 310XT and the original vivoactive was the communications was just as bad - basically non-existent. The user base was a lot larger but Garmin never said anything official. With a larger user base there were more options for help from other users and perhaps there was more chance for leaks.

I see this as standard operating procedure for Garmin and don't see the Descent is really treated any differently.

Garmin Connect is useless as a dive log, but then so is every other dive log provided by the manufacturer for their dive computer.

Look at the useless Shearwater Desktop app. It's woeful. Shearwater are supposedly producing a cloud based app but it is even worse. If you have more than around 20 dives it doesn't sync properly.

Shearwater have not developed any conduits to any other dive log app. Do Shearwater products work with other diving log apps? Yes, but only because those diving log apps built in the support themselves, just like MacDive, Diving Log 6.0 and Subsurface have done for the Mk1 (using the FIT SDK that was provided). Did Garmin build the conduit to Strava or did Strava build it? I'm pretty sure it is the latter.

My Shearwater Perdix hasn't had an update since March 2018. That's almost a year. I guess the Perdix is a deadend product.

0 Odie21 over 5 years ago

My Shearwater Perdix hasn't had an update since March 2018. That's almost a year. I guess the Perdix is a deadend product.

You’re comparing apples to oranges. The Perdix is a dive computer and ONLY a dive computer. The MK1 is a Sports Watch, with the ability to do the sport of diving and have the information be tracked (like it’s other activities Jumpmaster comes to mind since that to is life/death sport). That seems to get lost too many times.

It is understandable that it’s update schedule is slower than the other watches, but this watch is 6-7 months behind units that are 1+ year older. Garmin can spew how “committed” they are to the watch but I’ve always been a firm believer that actions speak louder than words.

Seeing that this watch was last updated in August ‘18, actions or lack of, are speaking pretty loudly right now.

0 Garmin-Heath over 5 years ago

FYI, the software update v6.00 is out. Please start a new thread if you have any questions about the new and changed features added in the update.

0 maryooshek over 5 years ago

FYI, the software update v6.00 is out. Please start a new thread if you have any questions about the new and changed features added in the update.

Hi Heath,

Got it! Tests started! :)

Regards!

0 atj777 over 5 years ago

While the Mk1 is a sports watch, Garmin is under no obligation to enhance the device and certainly under no obligation to make it the same as the Fenix 5X or any other sports watch. Basically, as long as it functions to the specifications when you bought it, they are honouring the contract which was entered when you bought it.

It is great to have enhancements and new features and it is obviously in the interests of both the manufacturer and the customer to reward the customer with enhancements, but they are not mandatory.

I really don't understand why people get so hung up on updates and enhancements. My Mk1 does everything I expected from it when I bought it - well apart from the Garmin button failing, which was rectified by support, and now the dodgy temperature readings, which I also expect to be rectified. As long as bugs are fixed, it does the job required of it.

For example, 4.00 introduced "All Day Stress Measurement". All very nice but it hasn't changed anything about my days or what I do.

With 6.00 (which I already have) has a Sunrise/Sunset widget. Oh, whoopty do! My life will be changed forever. I now get a choice of 12 different gases when I'm diving... At most I use two and they are usually both the same so I'm struggling to have 3 let alone the 6 I had before the upgrade to 6.00.

Note that I'm not defending Garmin here. They are still the same company that I have a love/hate relationship with. Their support and communication is still quite poor - across the whole product line not just the Mk1. Garmin Connect is still buggy and dumb decisions are made. I just don't believe that the upgrade path of the Mk1 is a big deal.

0 Odie21 over 5 years ago

Of course Garmin has no obligation whatsoever to update any of its products. I appreciate that they do, that’s one of the reasons why I switched to Apple because they supported their devices/products a lot longer than Android or its carriers.

Garmin has built up an expectation though of products being updated on a 1-2 month basis (whether beta or regular update). What Garmin should do, is start releasing wearables that need no updates. Take longer with..let’s say the Fenix 6... and release it as is unless there was a major issue that needed to be resolved.

The problem with trying to release less, but bigger updates with the Descent is that it’s prone to having more problems. Anyone try the flashlight yet with this update? It has the same issue that plagued the 5x and the backlight. Just one example.

0 0321tony over 5 years ago

Of course Garmin has no obligation whatsoever to update any of its products. I appreciate that they do, that’s one of the reasons why I switched to Apple because they supported their devices/products a lot longer than Android or its carriers.

Garmin has built up an expectation though of products being updated on a 1-2 month basis (whether beta or regular update). What Garmin should do, is start releasing wearables that need no updates. Take longer with..let’s say the Fenix 6... and release it as is unless there was a major issue that needed to be resolved.

The problem with trying to release less, but bigger updates with the Descent is that it’s prone to having more problems. Anyone try the flashlight yet with this update? It has the same issue that plagued the 5x and the backlight. Just one example.

I'm not sure what else you are expecting to see come from Garmin? Personally I am perfectly content to have updates take a little longer to get out than to release update after update with new versions that are buggy. We are all in a sense trusting our lives and our health to a computer and I for one am happy to wait an extra month or two to get an update that I can trust. I dive with redundancies but most people will strap on this computer get in the water and trust the depth gauge, ndl time bottom time etc. I am no computer geek but I know that any wrong push of a key while programming can lead to big issues. I do know that version 4.0 was being tested a month or two and possibly longer before the release to work out any issues, so they are working on new updates regularly just not pushing them out the door to keep people happy.
Yes not all of the complaints have been addressed but many of the issues that I had with the computer have been addressed. We asked for a safety stop that started at 20ft, we got it, we asked for a pool mode, we got it. There have been several things asked for and our wish was granted. I am perfectly happy with my computer and it serves me well in every aspect of my outdoor activities. The more I use it the more I like it. Even the app has gotten much better over the year and many of my personal suggestions to the company have been addressed. I would like to see the dive log able to be used off line but for now I cant, Who knows maybe thats something coming in the future, for now I download to Garmin connect but I also use Divemate.
If you want updates every week like the Fenix series than by all means buy a Fenix and be happy with buggy regular updates, having a glitch or issue while biking down a city street is not as much of an issue than having a glitch at 100ft under water. As for me I will wait the extra month for new features that I can trust.

0 Odie21 over 5 years ago

If you had truly read everything in this topic and not just the post you quoted, then you’d understand my point. Otherwise, I’m not repeating myself.

My opinion still stands with this watch and I for one will not buy the next version and will not bring the unit into my store.

0 Odie21 over 5 years ago

I hate to ruffle feathers here, as I’ve had some pleasant convos on the side with certain individuals but again it’s been 4 months since the last update and certain features need to be fixed/updated like “Pool Mode” which is utterly useless since it records as an activity AND has people at 140+ Million Feet down and 65k+ in N2, along with the Compass issue and others (like the backlight issue while using flashlight), etc.

0 Mark_H20 over 5 years ago

I have been using the Descent since it came out, and still do not fully trust the dive computer portion. Now it is my everyday wear watch and my backup dive computer. I still use a Shearwater Perdix as my primary. While the Descent has improved a lot since it came out, I still have a hard time recommending it as a primary dive computer to my students, and Garmin needs to address some of the key issues like the Compass. I am on the fence on a Descent Mk2, right now I am not sure I would buy one but would really depend on how Garmin addresses the issues with the Descent Mk1 going forward. I will say the support has improved quite a bit from when the Descent first came out, but I still do not see a real commitment to this product from Garmin Corporate. Garmin could learn a lot from how other companies support their products. If there is an issue on a Shearwater dive computer, they are quick to notify users and normally have a fix out within days that corrects the issue. Garmin Connect is also a very poor dive log, and Garmin needs to find a way to move the dives to one or more of the online dive logs.