Updates

I had gone back and forth about whether to post this type of topic, fully knowing that 1. It would not be a popular topic and 2. That I’m sure I’ll get some negative feedback for doing so (if not a deleted topic). Well, I’ve never been one to shy away from making an unpopular decision, so here we go.

The Descent Mk1 was released in Jan ’18, where its sibling the 5x was released in Q1 ’17 and the Tactix Charlie was released in March ’18. I’m specifically mentioning these watches because they’re part of the same family, in fact it’s even mentioned on the Descent Mk1 page that this watch had all of the best features of its sibling the 5x (as stated on Garmin’s website): “offering the best features of our f?nix® 5Xultimate multisport GPS watch”. Ok, so the watch release timeline is done.

Back on 11/13 we received an email stating that a “simple software update was coming soon” for the Descent Mk1 and it specifically mentioned adding CCR support. I’m sure that there would have been other “updates” that go along with this “simple software update” but none were mentioned. Well, it’s now 12/22, well over a month since that Black Friday “we want to sell more watches” email… and no update. The last update for the Descent Mk1 was on 8/23…4 months ago. Meanwhile, it’s “siblings” have since received updates to enable Galileo, native Sunrise/Sunset widget, ALT. Time zone widget, Explore App Support and many other updates that have been available for these models since June/July (yes CIQ exists but the widgets, etc are slow and quite frankly poor as opposed to the baked in items). Yet the most expensive “base” Garmin model has been the least supported watch since its release.

Now, I had spoken to a Garmin employee via PM about the last of support/updates for this watch and after going back and forth, it was insinuated that I wanted a rushed product, yada, yada, yada. I by no means want a rushed product but when a Garmin employee that didn’t have to pay anything and/or full price for a $1k watch says something like that, it really burns my britches. I knew buying this watch that it wouldn’t have the “beta” side of updates. I understood that as this watch was geared towards a Life Support Sport and Garmin had to take a slower road to updates. I understood that. But the path to updates to bring it seemly closer to its siblings has not only been slow, but at a snail’s pace (I reported in January an issue with the Diving Compass pointing only to True North and not Magnetic North and it took them over 3 months to come out with an update to fix it). This would be different if this watch was solely designed for diving. I don’t wait for monthly updates for my Shearwater Perdix, Sherwood Wisdom 3, Sherwood Profile, Oceanic PP3, etc. I don’t expect monthly updates for the Mk1 but maybe even communication from Garmin reps that I know visit this forum giving us a “generalized” timeline of what’s to come would be appreciated. When you call Garmin’s Customer Support, they do an EXCELLENT job with handling issues. Unfortunately the representation on the Garmin forums though is nowhere near the same and quite frankly needs to be vastly improved.

Ok, to wrap up this long post. I know that once changes are done, they have to be tested. But I’ve wondered why a company like Garmin couldn’t do updates to other parts of this watches software without keeping it separate from 3-4 diving activities.

Are we a bit spoiled at seeing other watches have more frequent updates? Yes we are. Is it realistic to think the Mk1 can be the same? No. But when you are months and months behind models that are a1+ years older than yours, you start to wonder has the how serious are they taking this? When they do eventually update the watch, how many more or how much longer will they continue to support the watch when the Mk2 is already in the pipeline? They seem to only support watches for about 1 ½ - 2 years, as that’s fine, I understand that. Nothing lasts forever. I was told that I was in the minority that no one else was like me when it came to updates. This particular Garmin employee was wrong, as I also am a Garmin Dealer and I sold over 15 of these Descent’s to my customers, some of them that have come to ME to inquire about it since I sold it to them. These customers visit this forum but do not have a desire to post. This post is for them and anyone else frustrated by this process, not me. Due to the response from Garmin employee, I have since sold my Ti Descent Mk1. I have nothing to gain from this but I do feel for the other that has spent their hard earned money on this watch. Does the watch work? Yes it does, but could it be better within the construct of the Fenix 5 ecosystem?

Yes…

/end of rant

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0 profunditas over 5 years ago

While I still don't see merit in magnetic north vs. true north in diving, I agree that quarterly update should be a reasonable expectation for a sports watch with diving capabilities. Garmin should be more agile catering for traditionally loyal customer base.

0 irrstern over 5 years ago

I suppose that this product has no bride future and we can be happy if the battery works long enough that the investment was not a complete disaster. No roadmap is the best indication for more or less obsolete products...

0 pprimoz over 5 years ago

Fact that we, buyers of their most expensive wrist-worn device, are ignored in such a way is at least irresponsible, frivolous and rude. Instinct, I bought recently, received more upgrades in a few months than Desscent MK1 in a year and a half.

If I'm honest, I can not complain about the Descent MK1 functionality because it works perfectly under water, just like in all other sports! I am just very disappointed that Garmin treats us (their long-standing customers and users of many of their devices) like that.

0 Anaxagoras over 5 years ago

Cannot agree more. I would really like to know the answer Garmin to those questions!? Because I feel a lot cheated from Garmin. I bought Descent MK1 because I was tricked it is Fenix 5X with diving features. But in fact it is not at all!! I can see constant flow of new things coming to 5x, like Deezer and Spotify, which again are not compatible with Descent MK1 like many other things for example Strength workouts, which was few months ago part of the official Descent MK1 manual now they are removed. I think this can possibly be sued in US.

0 Odie21 over 5 years ago

Obviously, my feelings are known above but in fairness to Garmin, the 5x isn’t capable of what the 5x Plus is. So Spotify and Deezer aren’t available for this (or the family of 5x) models.

0 Garmin-Heath over 5 years ago

Garmin is committed to diving and the Descent Mk1 product line. We have a significant software update planned for January, which includes CCR support, new gas setup structure, pool dive mode, new in-dive settings changes, GPS entry/exit point saving, and other dive-related enhancements and fixes. We also pulled in numerous new features from the fenix line, but Descent Mk1 does not have hardware support for Music or Garmin Pay. We will share the details at the time of the software release.

As a reminder, Descent software updates will generally always trail fenix releases. This delay allows us to perform testing and validation critical to keeping the Descent Mk1 platform stable for divers.

0 Odie21 over 5 years ago

Heath,

Thank you for the response.

A few things though:

Based on the “outlined” plan for an update, it appears that you’re adding “numerous new features from the Fenix line” along with CCR Support and some in-dive enhancements. This very long awaited update was obviously held up because of the interest in adding CCR support. Now the sport of Scuba Diving is already very much a “niche” sport. There are a lot of certified divers out there but the % that are certified versus being certified and owning their own gear (hard goods- BCD, Regulator, Computer, etc) is a 2-1 ratio if not more. So the owners of the Descents are most likely already certified, who own their own gear and bought the Descent because it would not only complimented their current diving setup but also act like a MULTI SPORT WATCH like the rest of the Fenix series. The CCR aspect of diving is MUCH smaller, so small that maybe 1% of certified divers actually look into and go down the CCR path due to the training, the cost of owning and maintaining a Rebreather, etc. So this update is obviously trying to compete against Shearwater, etc and not really to benefit the current Descent owners, of which if had a Rebreather would have been using another product anyways (hence why a “sales” email went out on 11/13 pushing the “coming soon” update to the Descent, so buy now!).

My point is this, there is no reason why the “numerous new features from the Fenix line” had to wait 6+ months (assuming that the update comes out in January) after the other Fenix watches got the update, when this could have been tested and pushed to the Mk1 models in September or October. If you took off your “Garmin” hat and name tag and looked at from a “consumers” standpoint…a MULTI SPORT WATCH called the Descent Mk1 that can also be used for Scuba Diving, that costs over $1000 for the base model and is updated every 4-5 months with no communication from the manufacture, then you’d sit back and say “yeah, I understand where they’re coming from”. You only responded with the upcoming plan because your hand was forced because of a post, but why? Why should it be that way for a model that is much different from an update standpoint? Was that every actually communicated? I understood but what about other people. What about the people that had a Fenix 5x and bought the Descent Mk1 for Black Friday and after they turned it on realized how much “older” the software was than their current watch.

Now, I believe that I speak for all the Descent owners when I say of course we want the watch to work with no hiccups. Of course we want that, of course we don’t want a rushed product. But why is it that Garmin has to release let’s just say 40 updates/improvements/changes in January, as opposed to maybe15 or 20 related to the MULTI SPORT WATCH that the Descent is being advertised as a few months sooner. We understood (or at least I did) that it wouldn’t be updated as quickly as the Fenix series but 6-7 months behind what some models that are 1 year “older” are getting?

You have Fenix 3 owners that bought the Fenix 5 series. You have Fenix 5 owners that bought the 5+. How many Descent Mk1 owners will buy the Mk2 when it comes out (2020?) knowing that the support is very slow and that there is no communication from Garmin (even a quick blurb like what you posted) other than sending out an email “BUY NOW because this feature is coming!” Garmin has built up a lot of customer loyalty through its other wearable brands but I really don’t feel that the same loyalty will exist with the Descent Mk series due to how it’s been handled up to this point. That update took you what, 5 minutes to type up? Why can’t you or another Garmin rep be forthcoming about the development to ensure that even if the updates can’t come sooner (due to logistical complications), that at least the current owners aren’t left out to dry due to silence from Garmin?

You don’t need to respond because you’re going to put on the Garmin hat and justify why things are slow. It will mean nothing to the consumers who spent money on the watches but maybe the next set of focus groups Garmin runs to see how they can enhance customer loyalty for repeat business, can take note of a few things that either I’ve said or what others have said here and/or on the phone or emails.

0 renton82 over 5 years ago

All this remember me the Epix's sad story...

0 Odie21 over 5 years ago

Curious if Garmin is holding out this update until CES and to make the announcement of adding CCR, along with the Vivoactive 3 w/ Music and LTE announcement.

0 Mark_H20 over 5 years ago

You have Fenix 3 owners that bought the Fenix 5 series. You have Fenix 5 owners that bought the 5+. How many Descent Mk1 owners will buy the Mk2 when it comes out (2020?) knowing that the support is very slow and that there is no communication from Garmin (even a quick blurb like what you posted) other than sending out an email “BUY NOW because this feature is coming!” Garmin has built up a lot of customer loyalty through its other wearable brands but I really don’t feel that the same loyalty will exist with the Descent Mk series due to how it’s been handled up to this point. That update took you what, 5 minutes to type up? Why can’t you or another Garmin rep be forthcoming about the development to ensure that even if the updates can’t come sooner (due to logistical complications), that at least the current owners aren’t left out to dry due to silence from Garmin?

I have to agree with Odie21 here, both the pace of updates and the communications with the user base has been lacking. The customer service has improved some since the product was released. I like the concept of a multi sport watch that supports Scuba, but am not sure that I will buy a Mk2 when it comes out.

Garmin Connect is pretty much useless as a dive log, and going on a year since release there does not seem to be any action on developing conduits to other dive logs. This type of conduit has been available for years for other activities such as hiking, walking, running, cycling, and Connect and Strava play very nicely together. But Scuba is still stuck with Connect, I guess it is a good thing my primary dive computer is a Shearwater Perdix, and the Descent is my backup and everyday wear watch.