menu disappears

use my solution https://forums.garmin.com/apps-software/mobile-apps-web/f/garmin-connect-web/412456/connect-web-menu---win7---firefox it' a simple css modification from local css . no strange code

It's not you and it's not Opera. I have this problem with Chrome. Also with Firefox. And it's not great with Safari on my Mac. 

flowstate said:

Yet you are ok with using Windows 8.1, which hasn't received security updates since 2023?

And you are ok with using any of the browser versions you mentioned, all of which are from 2023?

Any bugs (especially security issues) will remain in those platforms forever.

It's your choice to use an older OS (I still use Windows 10 on some of my devices), but it's a little self-contradictory to express concern over using an "insecure" third party browser, given that your OS and all of the well-known browsers it supports are 2 years old.

I agree about the security risks of outdated browsers, and I'm aware of that. And yes, I rely on mainstream browsers from well-known brands. There are many third party browsers available, some of which contain a key logger, backdoor, data collector or similar. These browsers are much riskier than a 2 year outdated mainstream browser. And I don't plan to use these platform forever,.

flowstate said:

It isn't rational to single Garmin out for the blame here, when practically every other app/browser vendor dropped Windows 7/8.1 as soon as Microsoft discontinued support.

OP initially complained about the missing main menu. That seems to be fixed now, but unfortunately an unusable main menu is still there. I don't know if there is a connection between these two problems. But reality is that the unusable main menu only appears on GC Web, not on the Garmin shopping websites, not even in the CIQ Store, Amazon, Google, Nike,... or anywhere else. How about Strava, Runalyze, Runkeeper, ...? Are they also restricted to work only with current browsers?

It turns out that the unusable main menu in GC Web occurs when outdated browsers are used. But how do other companies deal with this problem without alienating their customers? What's stopping Garmin from doing like the other companies and fixing the main menu for outdated browsers in the same way? I'm not convinced that a simple readable main menu is an important part of browser security.

So, I think the browsers are not the only reason for the unusable main menu, rather it's the GC website that is being too strict.

And for me rationality means to follow the reality. The reality is that GC Web is currently an exception for only support current browsers.

subra said:

So, I think the browsers are not the only reason for the unusable main menu, rather it's the GC website that is being too strict.

I think the simplest explanation is that Garmin does not wish to expend the effort to fix their bug for older browsers, not that there's any kind of policy about writing code that's too "strict" for older browsers. If anything, writing "stricter" code might tend to avoid this kind of problem (assuming, of course, that there are no new features involved that don't exist for older browsers).

subra said:

The reality is that GC Web is currently an exception for only support current browsers.

I think we should there are several hypothetical situations here which should be distinguished:

1) vendors explicitly promise to support older browsers (and, if their code breaks on 2-year old browsers, they will be motivated to fix it, in order to fulfill their promise)

2) vendors only promise to support current browsers, but they happen to write code which runs on 2-year old browsers

3) vendors only promise to support current browsers, but their code breaks on 2-year old browsers (and they are not motivated to fix it)

I think what you are seeing with those other companies is 2), not 1). I am a full stack dev who does a lot of front end work and I can tell you that it's very common for vendors to only promise to support the latest version of popular browsers, especially Chrome, Firefox, Edge and Safari. 

I think what you are seeing with Garmin Connect is 3). It's a result of apathy (and whatever word you want to use to describe what led to the original bug), it's not a deliberate decision to *exclude* old browsers. It's more like Garmin does not promise that Connect will work on older browsers, and if there is a problem with older browsers, Garmin clearly does not care.

I can tell you that when I test my web apps, I do *not* test with older browser versions and neither does anyone else I work with. For me, it's far more important to test things like:

- differences between macos and windows

- differences between attached mouse and no mouse [trackpad only] [this affects whether scrollbars are displayed]

- differences between chrome, firefox, safari and edge. 

But if I'm being real, many devs will only test one configuration: the latest version of Chrome, with a trackpad on their own dev machine

Do you think Amazon, Google, Nike, etc. are constantly testing their sites with 2-year old browsers? Why stop there? They could test with browsers that are 5-10 years old. They could also test with IE6. Sorry, but we left those bad old days behind a long time ago - web devs are no longer forced to work around the quirks of very old browsers because Microsoft forced IE6 to stay around for a lot longer than it should have. Unfortunately, going in the other direction means that we have lost something - even "mildly" old browsers are instantly discarded, not just super old browsers. Yes, there was a time when certain older versions of Firefox (for example) were supported by websites / web apps, but that was also before browsers switched to a continuous release cycle, which means that only most current release is supported by the browser vendor itself.

You haven't addressed my point that Steam, Chrome, Firefox, Opera, and of course Edge have all discontinued support for Windows 7/8.1. My point is that if the app and browser vendors themselves will not support old operating systems (although they could choose to do so), then why should the app and website vendors support old browsers? You're holding the Garmin Connect website to a higher standard than the big browser vendors themselves (and Steam, with its 132 million monthly users), which is highly ironic to me.

To be clear, I am not defending Garmin for writing bad code here. I know that the original problem existed for all browsers, not just old browsers. In fact I happened to post one of the workarounds for the problem.

To take this further, I am probably the biggest critic of Garmin when it comes to bugs, poor software quality, usability issues, bad design, etc. I've def been attacked by the usual Garmin defenders who hang out in these forums for daring to criticize Garmin.

But I will not criticize Garmin for saying that they only support the latest browsers, because it's no different than other vendors. 

And again:

Garmin / other website/webapp vendors only supporting current browsers is not so different from browser vendors dropping support for Windows 7/8.1. Again, if the popular browsers continued to support Windows 7/8.1, then you would have the latest browers on Windows 8.1, and you would not be experiencing this situation.

So again, you may as well blame the browser vendors for dropping support for Windows 7/8.1. It's their decision which has a far greater impact on a far wider base of users.

Or you may as well blame Microsoft for discontinuing security fixes for Windows 7/8.1. (But it's not surprising they would do so eventually)

subra said:

And for me rationality means to follow the reality. The reality is that GC Web is currently an exception for only support current browsers.

The reality is that Garmin likely does not care if the Connect website works with older browsers or not. If it does, it's a bonus for a small minority of users (although they probably still don't care). If it doesn't, they probably won't expand the time and effort to fix it.

The reality is that this is an industry standard, whether you like it or not.

https://support.strava.com/hc/en-us/articles/216917637-Supported-Browsers-on-Strava

If users of strava.com happen to have problems with the site when they use an older browser, what do you think strava support would suggest?

TL;DR I will criticize Garmin for bad code all day long (and I have done so many times), but I won't criticize Garmin for adopting the same policy as everyone else when it comes to browser support.

It's also very understandable that in the modern world of internet-connected software, nobody big/mainstream is going to officially support older OSs and older browsers, either of which might contain unpatched security vulnerabilities.

Examples of this mindset:

- The latest versions of Steam won't work on Windows 7/8.1 at all

- Of course no mainstream browser vendor releases new browser versions for Window 7/8.1

- Website/webapp vendors only promise to support the latest release of mainstream browsers (or they "strongly encourage" users to keep their software up-to-date)

The common thread is that we're all encouraged (or "forced") to keep our software up to date in the modern computing world, whether we like it or not. And there can be very real security consequences for not doing so. Accordingly, most vendors will not bother to support you unless your OS / browser / app is up to date.

(again it's the user's choice not to stay current - like when I choose to run win10 on an old device - but imo the user cannot reasonably turn around and complain that their old OS/browser/app is not supported by the vendor. Ofc I am referring to mainstream consumer software / apps. It's not uncommon for embedded systems or custom-built apps/systems for organizations to be running on hardware/operating systems that are decades old.)

I can only reiterate the advice to use https://github.com/win32ss/supermium 

as said above . If someone want use my solution https://forums.garmin.com/apps-software/mobile-apps-web/f/garmin-connect-web/412456/connect-web-menu---win7---firefox it' a simple css modification from local css . no strange code , no need to install anything . Is not perfect but you can use . I have no time to fix other parts , I do a little modification but i have to update the post on the forum . If I see that is not working I try to fix and update the post if is possible . I'm a runner so I look like everyday garmin connect

I have found a way of using Garmin connect without updating my OS - I just use the same mouse position and clicking without seeing a normal menu on screen- as an example, let me explain how I access "courses":
I first click on the arrow in the circle on the left of the white bar at the top, and get the limited menu section to show.
Then I slide the vertical gray bar down until I see the "Training" stopwatch
Next I move my courser to the triangle next to the stopwatch and click - the only visible change is the "Gear" sneaker drops down a bit, the menu is activated, but just not visible.
Now, if you slowly move the hand shaped cursor down from the triangle without clicking, you will notice a small gray rectangle appear at the bottom left with writing in it.  These are the menu options for the current cursor position.
I just move the hand cursor down until the rectangle shows the fourth word change as "htps / connect Garmin/courses, then I click the mouse, and voila!, the courses window opens!
I suppose it's just really flying (nearly) blind, but it works- and I don't have to update my OS

The same technique can be used to access any other function, it's just I mostly use the course writing function on my old desktop computer, everything else I do with my phone, which works the same as it did before Garmins "update".