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BUG: When reversing a course, the course immediately gets longer by more than 50%

NormalGarminUser
over 3 years ago

I planned a course in Garmin Connect Web.

After that I duplicated and then reversed the course to save the counter-clockwise direction as separate course (reason: when I just navigate a course in reverse direction on my Forerunner 945 LTE, it won't give me any turn signals. So I have to explicitly save the same course in reverse direction).

Immediately after just clicking reverse direction, the distance shown increased from e.g. 11.7 km to more than 20 km. Also, the total ascent and decent more than doubles (from 260 m to 530 m in my example).

In another example, the distance increased from 12.5 to 18.2 km, while the total ascent and descent did not change (see screenshot below).

Please remove this bug.

Note: My course also included a few manually set course points - not sure if this is related - just saying.

Update: Seems the bug only shows up when I keep the selection at its default "popularity routing". When I select "Freehand" before reversing the route, the problem does not show up. Note that I planned the original course in Freehand mode.

Update 2: For my 11.7 km course, the problem ALSO shows up when reversing in "Freehand" mode. So there is noting that I can do as a workaround! Really bad. Here the "before/after reversing" situation:

  

I did the duplication and reversing another time (again after selecting "Freehand" before) - this time with another wrong result ("better", but still very wrong):

Update 3: I found that the bug is already present after the duplication: IF I just take the duplicated course and change just one tiny part of the course in Freehand mode, like moving the route by "1 millimeter" at one point, the course distance jumps directly from 11.7 km to 20.7 km and the total ascent / descent changes from 260 to 530 meters, and the elevation diagram start to look very noisy. Something is completely messed up with this tool! Please fix it!

Update 4: An "ALMOST"-WORKAROUND:

- Export track (i.e. save on computer locally) as gpx file

- Re-import this gpx file and then select "Freehand" and then reverse the course

This "almost" works. Also here the course changes its length, but only slightly from 11.72 to 11.78 km, and still with the inconsistency that the total distance (11.78 km) does not agree with the elevation diagram (correct 11.72 km). And again the total ascent/descent change without reason - this time it becomes 4 to 5 meters LESS:

Update 5:

When I export the "almost correct" course to a gpx file and re-import it, then the re-imported course is fixed. A very cumbersome workaround...

  • 0 over 3 years ago

    Hello and thank you for the details in this post.  Following the steps you outlined, I was unable to reproduce this issue.  Have you been able to duplicate this with multiple courses?

  • 0 over 3 years ago in reply to Garmin-Kevin

    Yes, I tried it with two tracks and it happened with both. The effect is sometimes more and sometimes less extreme.

    I just tried with one gpx track of which I made the screenshot above, to reproduce it with the following steps:

    1.) Import the gpx track and select Course Type = "Running".

    --> It shows as having 11.72 km and ascent 255 m and descent 252 m.

    2.) Click "Freehand", and then "Reverse Direction". Wait about 10-15 seconds (it takes some time until the ascent/descent changes).

    --> It shows as having 11.78 km and ascent 228 m and descent 230 m.

    3.) Click "Reverse Direction" again. Wait about 10-15 seconds.

    --> It shows as having 11.78 km and ascent 255 m and descent 253 m.

    ----------- ----------- -----------

    I click "Discard" and repeat step 1 above again, new, and this time I get a different result:

    1.) Import the gpx track and select Course Type = "Running".

    --> It shows as having 11.72 km and ascent 230 m and descent 227 m.

    2.) Click "Freehand", and then "Reverse Direction". Wait about 10-15 seconds.

    --> It shows as having 11.78 km and ascent 254 m and descent 256 m.

    ...

    and it goes on like this. Absolutely crazy!

    I tried to attach this gpx to this message so you can try it, too, but I think I can only attach images and videos here.

  • 0 over 3 years ago in reply to NormalGarminUser
    NormalGarminUser said:

    1.) Import the gpx track and select Course Type = "Running".

    --> It shows as having 11.72 km and ascent 255 m and descent 252 m.

    What is the origin of this course?  You say you are importing it, but from where?

    NormalGarminUser said:
    Immediately after just clicking reverse direction, the distance shown increased from e.g. 11.7 km to more than 20 km. Also, the total ascent and decent more than doubles (from 260 m to 530 m in my example).

    I do not see the distance increasing more that 0.06 km in the latest example.  Can you reproduce that % increase again using another course?

  • 0 over 3 years ago in reply to Garmin-Kevin
    Garmin-Kevin said:
    What is the origin of this course?  You say you are importing it, but from where?

    First I manually planned a course in Garmin Connect web app (browser) in "Freehand" mode. Then I exported this to my local PC to a gpx file, This is the file that I then (re-)imported as described.

    Garmin-Kevin said:
    I do not see the distance increasing more that 0.06 km in the latest example.

    Yes, that's what I can reproduce all the time. 60 meters from just reversing the track is definitely a bug already and may point to the root cause of the much greater deviations that I also achieved, as described in my original post. By just reversing the course the difference should be very precisely 0.0 meters.

    And as I said under "update 4" in my original post: The elevation diagram still shows 10.72 km and is thus inconsistent with the displayed total distance of 10.78 km, so there's something fundamentally wrong. Also, when I export and re-import the track, I get 10.72 km again (and also different ascent/descent values). So I propose to remove the root cause of that bug first, and then maybe the other problem with the sometimes much bigger deviation is also fixed.

    Garmin-Kevin said:
    Can you reproduce that % increase again using another course?

    I did not try it. I tried the reversing only on the two course I described in my original post. I did not try any further reversings of other courses. You can probably reproduce it yourself by planning manually a course with many points and some way points on top. My course has 12 waypoints (8x crossing, 4x rest area) and the course itself has 2562 points.

  • 0 over 3 years ago in reply to NormalGarminUser

    I have not been able to reproduce this on any courses that I have created, though I do not have any courses with 2,562 points.

    Instead of exporting and then re-importing (as you described below):

    NormalGarminUser said:
    First I manually planned a course in Garmin Connect web app (browser) in "Freehand" mode. Then I exported this to my local PC to a gpx file, This is the file that I then (re-)imported as described.

    Let's see what happens when you DUPLICATE:

    and then REVERSE DIRECTION:

  • 0 over 3 years ago in reply to Garmin-Kevin

    Well, the duplication is what I had done at the very beginning - that's where I discovered the big bugs. I had a route already planned - then I duplicated it in order to reverse the direction.That's where the bug happened. As I described in my initial post.

    In your case, the ascent/descent values also changed in an implausible way - albeit not with the huge side-effect that I faced in my original post acc. to the 2nd image after "Update 2".

  • 0 over 3 years ago in reply to Garmin-Kevin

    I am adding a video to demonstrate that - obviously - the "reverse course" operation becomes much more buggy/crazy when the course contains (many) manually set course points. And also the length/number of points that the planned course consists of apparently plays a role:

    [Video upload to this post did not work this time, so I uploaded it to my dropbox - link here]:

    www.dropbox.com/.../Course-Reversal_Bug-Demo.mp4

  • 0 over 3 years ago in reply to NormalGarminUser

    Thank you for your participation in this forum thread.  So that I may assist you further, please reply with the following:

    1. May we, if necessary, have permission to email you?
    2. May we, if necessary, have permission to view/access your Garmin Connect account?
    3. In what country do you live?