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SLOW map downloads - what IS the solution?

DriveAssist 51
over 3 years ago

Yes, I know there are multiple messages on this subject.  Yes, I know I will be told "most people don't have a problem" and to contact my ISP.  Nonetheless, there ARE issues with Garmin map downloads and clearly, many people DO have an issue.  I have put up with it for years (multiple ISPs).  It's a pain, especially with multiple Garmin devices and PC's.

I have a fibre connection with my ISP.  1GB up/down speeds (about 800Mb/s confirmed on my PC).  Unlimited internet data.  My ISP does NOT throttle downloads.

I use direct wired connections to my computers (no WiFi).

I only have this issue with Garmin.  Yes, they are probably the largest files to download, but other large files, from other suppliers, transfer very fast.  And no, I'm not talking about buffered streaming services such as Netflix, YouTube or others that only really run at a few Mb/s.

When I first start the download on my Windows 10 computer, things move along quite well (20-30Mb/s) but then they slowly dwindles down to 400kb/s and finally it just times-out (ya, it sure looks like its being throttled, but where?).

I then tried my older Windows 7 laptop and the download was successful.  Although it did take a while (as expected), speeds were reasonable (consistent ~8Mb/s +).

I tried my Win10 computer with the same painfully slow response as noted above.  (even just downloading to the PC, not to the Garmin device).

I'm using Garmin Express 7.7.1.0

So, if the issue is NOT Garmin, and it is NOT my ISP, what is the issue?

Is there some incompatibility with Windows 10?  Firewall?  MS Defender?

This IS an issue for many users.  There must be better guidance.

Has anyone actually SOLVED this puzzle?

  • 0 over 3 years ago
    DriveAssist 51 said:
    Has anyone actually SOLVED this puzzle?

    Nope, but I'm willing to participate in any troubleshooting activities to get to the bottom of it - entirely out of my curiosity. Seriously.

    And I'm not GARMIN apologist either - you can browse my posts from the past on this very forum should you need a point of reference...

    Disclosure: I've been using GE for 10+ years now and have never experienced such problem myself. Never. Ever. Always full download speeds depending on my connection via ISP (typically 80Mbps).

    Testimony: https://forums.garmin.com/apps-software/mac-windows-software/f/garmin-express-windows/71039/garmin-express-nothing-express-about-it-super-slow/1275551#1275551

    Let me know how do you want to move this forward?

  • 0 over 3 years ago

    Given the number of people who have complained about this, and the number of years it's been going on (pre-dating Garmin Express), and the number of different ISP's, computers and locations that this has been a problem, the ONLY common denominator has been Garmin, it's pretty obvious that it is Garmin's issue to solve.

    SUSSAMB, please do not reply to this email with your usual response of "Most users don't have issues so if you have a problem let Garmin know."  I'm happy for you that you seem to have this magic connection to garmin that allows you to get fast downloads, but you certainly appear to be the in the minority.

  • 0 over 3 years ago in reply to owzatatagain

    This is true that people complain about this issue, there's no doubt about this.

    This is also true that people will spill their frustration on-line much quicker than others commend something that works - and that skews the overall picture as (I daresay) majority do not experience such problem.

    Now, how do we get this troubleshoot / resolved? Any ideas?

  • 0 over 3 years ago

    Thanks for the responses.  It's the only way to get to a resolution for everyone.

    I tried to download the map update again today.  Same Windows 10 computer.  No changes.  The file downloaded within minutes.  Quick.  No issues.  Now, if THAT would only happen all the time!  This was a download to the "computer only".

    I then tried to download "to the device" (I chose an older nuvi 1350).  This time it started fast and looked promising however after about a minute it started to slow.  It's been 40 minutes and "speed" (?) is down to 630KB/s (?) and stalled at "20.1% complete".  This is typical.

    The procedure is to "not disconnect your device" during the download, but what do you do when it chokes?

    My results over the years have been hit and miss.  Very frustrating.

    I have no concerns with my ISP.  They are a major carrier and provide top notch service.  So why the inconsistencies in speed?

    I'm not pointing the finger at Garmin (yet) but there must be more info.

    If anyone has gone through this, and contacted Garmin support, what was the outcome?

    Surely there is information to be shared.

  • 0 over 3 years ago in reply to Krzemien

    Krzemien: what computer are you using?  Windows (10, 7, etc), I presume (because of this forum)

    When you download (with successful speedy delivery) are you downloading to the PC only, to the Garmin device, or both?

    Do you turn off anti-virus or any other steps you take before downloading?

    What Garmin devices are you downloading to?

    I have DriveAssist 51 and nuvi 1350

    thanks

  • 0 over 3 years ago in reply to DriveAssist 51

    My experience is same as Krzemien, that includes on previous PCs running XP and Win7 and now Win10. Always kept the OS up to date and on multiple Garmin devices. Only time I had an issue was when I forgot to update Express before the update. Never needed to turn off anti-virus etc

  • 0 over 3 years ago in reply to DriveAssist 51

    It's HP Omen 870-095na, with expanded RAM, swapped OS SATA SSD by cloning (128MB was a joke to start with) and added NVMe SSD as a data store. It runs Windows 10 Home continuously since early 2017 (so: no re-installs etc.), with latest upgrades (21H1) and updates (Jul CU). I do have FTTC 80/20 broadband which is quite stable and reliable.

    I do not use any AV software except what is provided by Windows (Defender). I occasionally ran Malwarebytes to sweep the disks, but not as a background service.

    I neither use nor have installed any VPN software either.

    In the past I used to have rather dated PC (Pentium IV) with Windows XP before it died on me in Jan 2017 (necessitated purchase of the above) and ran Garmin Express (some previous version) without any such issues either.

    I currently own nuvicam LMT-D - since 2016, I think? - I used to own 3590 LMT-D before.

    When I download / upload maps, I typically do so for both: PC and nuvicam at the same time. There used to be issues in the past with simultaneous installation on both, but that happened to me one or twice in the last 10 years.

    When one downloads/uploads the map, first 50% of the overall process (as indicated in GE) is download off the Garmin servers to your PC to C:\ProgramData\Garmin\CoreService\Downloads\Map folder - this typically uses whole of my available DL speed (~8MB/s). The second part is both installation to device and to your PC - transfer to device is ca. 14MB/s (it was in my case last time I checked). Installation to PC is nearly instantaneous these days (SSD speeds).

    There's a selection of logs here:

    C:\ProgramData\Garmin\Logs

    Perhaps it's worth reviewing and checking what they contain to start with?

  • 0 over 3 years ago

    I am running Windows 10 on a 6 year old Acer ATC-705 desktop.  It's nothing fancy but its not an under performer either.  The HD is the original spinning disk.  It has 8GB of RAM.  It is direct hard wired to my ISP provided modem/router (its really more of a switch as I am on fibre-to-the-home) on a 1GE port.  Various speed tests (using different test sites) show a consistent >600Mb/s up/down to/from my PC with latency less than 2ms.

    For comparison, my Windows 7 laptop is an 8 year old Lenovo T430.  It's not as powerful (?) as my desktop but, again its not an under performer. I have swapped out the HD for an SSD drive.  It has 4GB of RAM. Although I typically use it on WiFi, I had it direct wired to a 100Mb port on my home network switch for my Garmin downloads.  Oddly enough, my latest Garmin download (yesterday), to my DriveAssist 51 ran smoothly with this computer.

    I also have an older XP computer that I have used for Garmin downloads in the past, with the same slow speed issues.  I am not using it for these tests.

    Like Krzemien I don't not use any AV software except Windows Defender. I also occasionally run Malwarebytes, but not as a background service.

    Although I have VPN application installed, I don't often use it.

    A few years ago I was on a coax (cable TV) based ISP.  Service was for 100Mb/s up/down which ran fine, with consistent speed tests to confirm performance.  I had no issues with this platform other than Garmin downloads.  I am now with another provider with FTTH 1GE service.  Performance is great!  Garmin downloads are still hit & miss.

    I have two Garmin devices:  DriveAssist 51 and nuvi 1350

    When I download maps, I typically try to do so for both PC and GPS at the same time.

    I have Garmin WebUpdater, MapInstall, Garmin Express and Basecamp installed on my Windows 10 computer.  I forget what WebUpdater & MapInstall do, and I haven't use them in a very long time.

    As suggested by Krzemien, I checked some of the logs found here C:\ProgramData\Garmin\Logs\Express.  There is lots of data contained in the files.

    They are long files so I have cut & pasted a number of events to summarize:
    2021-07-16 17:14:53.7613 |   1 | I | Version: 7.7.1.0
    2021-07-16 17:14:55.0737 |   1 | I | Sync Service Started
    2021-07-16 17:14:55.3861 |   1 | I | Creating new get device details task for 3826468986
    2021-07-16 17:14:55.4018 |   8 | I | Unable to deserialize C:\ProgramData\Garmin\CoreService\account_list.xml. File is empty
    2021-07-16 17:14:56.0580 |   1 | I | Creating new get device details task for 3985273714
    2021-07-16 17:14:56.0580 |   8 | I | Unable to deserialize C:\ProgramData\Garmin\CoreService\account_list.xml. File is empty
    2021-07-16 17:14:55.9486 |   1 | I | Creating new get device details task for 3826468986
    2021-07-16 17:14:55.9486 |   1 | I | No XML repair required
    2021-07-16 17:14:56.0580 |   1 | I | Creating new get device details task for 3985273714
    2021-07-16 17:14:56.0580 |   8 | I | Unable to deserialize C:\ProgramData\Garmin\CoreService\account_list.xml. File is empty
    2021-07-16 17:15:30.4932 |   1 | I | Device Selected nüvi 1350
    2021-07-16 17:15:44.3623 |  30 | I | ComputerMapUpdateOperation_3826468986_CN-A20-39 setting phase to Downloading.
    2021-07-16 17:15:44.3773 |  30 | I | Downloading 213
    2021-07-16 17:15:44.3913 |  30 | I | Removing operation Garmin.Omt.Service.Operation.Map.Computer.UpdateComputerMapOperation from queue.
    2021-07-16 17:15:44.4073 |  10 | I | Starting Download {@Downloadable}
    there are numerous instances of the two lines above
    2021-07-16 17:15:56.0867 |  10 | I | afec7167 - Beginning download at byte index 19705899. (PartialContent)
    2021-07-16 17:15:56.7236 |  25 | I | afec7167 - Download succeeded
    there are numerous instances of the two lines above
    2021-07-16 17:17:57.6293 |  31 | I | ComputerMapUpdateOperation_3826468986_CN-A20-39 setting phase to Activating.
    2021-07-16 17:21:10.7887 |   8 | I | Updating TDB file write time
    this is where things seem to go off the rails (note the timestamp below - its about 6 minutes into the process)
    2021-07-16 17:21:32.0542 |  33 | I | Prom path [Map\gmapupdate.img] determined using part number to replace [3826468986]
    2021-07-16 17:21:32.1349 |  33 | I | Finding SD card for device volume GUID: \\?\Volume{33bc531b-d54b-11e8-9c51-d8cb8ac0ce79}\
    2021-07-16 17:21:32.1349 |  33 | W | Unable to get disk extents for volume C:\. Error code: 6
    lots of other stuff after this
    2021-07-16 18:54:48.0453 |   1 | I | Full application shutdown clicked  <-- this was me jumping out of the application

    Hard to decipher what is really going on and it is probably best handled by Garmin support (as SUSSAMB has suggested).

    HOWEVER, it appears that the download actually worked (at least "a" download), with good speed.  The issue seems to be with connecting to the Garmin device.

    I'm stopping typing now to pause and ponder next step.



  • 0 over 3 years ago in reply to DriveAssist 51

    Thanks very much.

    I do not have logs from mid-June any more as they're now gone, but based on your extract provided above:

    2021-07-16 17:15:44.4073 |  10 | I | Starting Download {@Downloadable}
    there are numerous instances of the two lines above
    2021-07-16 17:15:56.0867 |  10 | I | afec7167 - Beginning download at byte index 19705899. (PartialContent)
    2021-07-16 17:15:56.7236 |  25 | I | afec7167 - Download succeeded
    there are numerous instances of the two lines above
    2021-07-16 17:17:57.6293 |  31 | I | ComputerMapUpdateOperation_3826468986_CN-A20-39 setting phase to Activating.

    it does look like the download part has completed successfully within 2 minutes - activation of downloaded maps takes place exactly at 50% of the overall progress.

    So it sounds to me that the issue takes place afterwards, i.e. when maps are uploaded to your device.

    Now, silly as it may sound (but this question has been asked before): do you connect your Garmin unit to your laptop/PC using USB cable provided by Garmin?

    Also, do you believe that your USB configuration (i.e. ports, drivers etc.) is healthy? I.e. your Garmin unit connects to your PC using USB2 interface (as it should)?

    This tool might come handy: www.uwe-sieber.de/usbtreeview_e.html

  • 0 over 3 years ago in reply to Krzemien

    I agree that the download appears to be successful.

    do you connect your Garmin unit to your laptop/PC using USB cable provided by Garmin?  There's a Garmin USB cable???  I bought these units a number of years ago and have a number of USB to mini-USB cables.  Don't know which one is the 'real" Garmin cable, nonetheless, the cable I am using is the same cable I use to successfully transfer .gpx files from Basecamp to my GPS, so I assume the cable is OK.  I also presume there is nothing special about the Garmin cable.

    do you believe that your USB configuration is healthy?  Yes, I believe so.  As noted above, I use the same computer, USB port and GPS device to transfer .gpx files from Basecamp

    Thanks for the link to the USB tool.  Using this I can see that both Garmin devices, and their respective SD cards, are recognized and appear correct.