It's now 2022. Can Garmin please make Basecamp stop sucking?

Perhaps if you explain the issues you're having you might get help. A rant isn't particularly useful. I've used BaseCamp for over 10 years and as a free program it's excellent.

Yet another rant that doesn't really help. Sounds like you're trying to use BaseCamp with the basic map it comes with. You don't have to buy any additional maps to use it IF you have a device with maps. BaseCamp will read the maps from that device or using Express many maps can be downloaded to your computer for BC to use. 

If you don't like it as a free program you don't have to use it. If it's simply, as you appear to admit, that you don't know how to use it there are numerous ways to learn. One of the better tutorials, although aimed at Zumo users but applicable to others, is here

www.newenglandriders.org/.../

The introduction says this:

Garmin BaseCamp GPS mapping software is a very powerful routing tool, but many
people are discouraged from using it because of its steep learning curve. This agenda is
intended to help you quickly get past the initial obstacles to learning BaseCamp. This will
help you use BaseCamp to plan, organize, and share your waypoints & routes and to use
your GPS more effectively by taking advantage of its many advanced functions.

Your inability to see my point does not invalidate it. It’s not my responsibility to fight with twenty year old software to make my cutting edge device work. It’s the responsibility of the provider to make their “free” software, which is not actually free, useable by purchasers who are used to modern operating conditions.

To put it bluntly, I didn’t buy a goddamned PDP-8, and I shouldn’t have to waste time learning to bootstrap one  I bought a very expensive piece of MODERN hardware with an interface that is archaic and non-intuitive. A kludgy backend interface means I am not getting full value for my product, so you are ENTIRELY too cavalier with MY wallet.

Garmin is a for-profit company and their “free” software is paid for by the money we pay for their electronics. The fact that they do not charge directly for it does not make it free. It means the cost of development is rolled into other products. 

it is preposterous that your own source for information is a Garmin device I do not even own or have any interest in, whose introduction acknowledges my point that the system is archaic and not suitable for modern users. I have neither the time nor the inclination to fight with this, and no one should have to. This software is part of the reflected value of the expensive device I purchased just as electronic books are part of the reflected value of an Amazon kindle  If getting books onto the Kindle were a time consuming pain, no one would buy it.

Garmin should be making their route and map importing software at LEAST as easy to use as Koyal Govid made Calibre, which IS free and has a highly intuitive interface that even my mom can figure out when it comes to putting ebooks on her reader.

My “ranting” will continue as long as I find deficiencies in items I pay for, and in the reflected products that accompany them. As a consumer, it is my right to point out where my expectations have not been met. We call that “feedback”, and companies interested in continuing to sell me products listen to it. As this is a Garmin-hosted website frequented by Garmin employees as well as other Garmin users who may have encountered the same issues, this is a perfectly valid location in which to bring up my grievances, so I’ll continue to do so.

You are correct in that I don’t have to use this “free” software. I can always purchase a competitor’s product. When I see a company that has twelve years of complaints about a product that have gone ignored, it certainly seems like they’d rather I opened my wallet for someone else. I am far more likely to research other brands than how to use one that I already have strong evidence will never be improved. 

I find your Basecamp fanboying and attempts to reduce my argument to mere ranting to be annoying. I am not interested in further conversation with you. The same problems you leapt to defend Garmin from in 2019 are still present. Garmin has done nothing to fix them, in part because of people like you making excuses for them. Garmin’s choice not to listen to customer feedback in another thread (over allowing users to set their own sleep goals) has already resulted in my choice not to purchase two new Montana 680t navigation devices from them. At this point, I wonder how many sales this policy intentionally not fixing known issues has cost them. $900 from me so far. I’m sure I am not the only one. 

Thank you for the link to the 62-page how-to guide written by someone other than Garmin, though. It may or may not be useful in my circumstances, but it sure helps make my case that if this software were so simple and intuitive to use, a THIRD PARTY would not have had to release a document of almost the same length as the original “Shawshank Redemption” novella to help people learn to use it. 

7378597 said:

Your inability to see my point does not invalidate it.

Well, your point has to be valid in the first place.

BaseCamp is a map viewer program. That is, you have to provide maps (by other means) to view them in BaseCamp.

The reason for this is that, while BaseCamp was free, the maps (historically) were not.

Also, it was quite likely that any map provided with BaseCamp would not be the map people wanted to use. That is, some people would want topo maps and others would want road maps.

Anyway...

As far as Garmin cares, BaseCamp hasn't been supported for 5+ years (Garmin makes very small changes to keep it working but they no longer devote effort in improving it. This means that, if BaseCamp isn't suitable for your needs, you will have to use some other software.

Garmin would likely prefer to not make BaseCamp available at all.

7378597 said:

I find your Basecamp fanboying and attempts to reduce my argument to mere ranting to be annoying.

No one cares.

SUSSAMB doesn't work for Garmin and can only help people use what's available. He can't make changes to BaseCamp and almost-certainly has no ability to convince Garmin to do so. These are mostly user forums: Garmin employees rarely and unreliably read or post here.

So, your ranting about deficiencies in BaseCamp here is pointless.

dpawlyk said:

Well, your point has to be valid in the first place.

Your inability to understand my point does not invalidate it. YOU do not get to choose what is or is not valid to anyone but YOU.

dpawlyk said:

BaseCamp is a map viewer program. That is, you have to provide maps (by other means) to view them in BaseCamp.

The reason for this is that, while BaseCamp was free, the maps (historically) were not.

Also, it was quite likely that any map provided with BaseCamp would not be the map people wanted to use. That is, some people would want topo maps and others would want road maps.

In what way does this excuse the indecipherable user interface? If you're going to pompously explain something, can you at least make an attempt to aim your bloviating towards a question I actually asked? Basecamp was free, AND AWFUL. Maps were not free (except where they were) and I never at any point stated I expected Basecamp to provide maps. I said the interface was trash, and it is surprising to me that an app on my phone is able to download and install free (or purchased) maps with one tap while a software that has been in development since the bloody Iraq invasion still has an interface composed equally of kludge and dreck.

FYI, none of the TOPO apps in the App Store provide free maps, either. They provide an easy to use interface with which to find, download, and use them. My sincere apologies that it somehow offended you that I would like the mapping software recommended by one of the largest navigation device sellers in the world for use with their $500-$1500 devices to have the same capabilities as the app I just paid 99 cents for. (Arguments aside, "Topo Map and Hiking Tracker" is really great. I recommend it as a backup to your Garmin device.)

The irony is that two of the three Garmin products I have purchased have been absolutely incredible. The Vivoactive 3 was the best smartwatch I'd ever seen, and only my stupid iPhone's inability to interface properly with it led to me not still using it today. My Garmin Instinct has a battery that lasts over a week, provides waypoint navigation flawlessly, and is absolutely the best marriage of 1990s Casio ruggedness with modern smartwatch capabilities I've yet seen. I've recommended this watch to three coworkers and at least one of them is waiting for his Amazon order to arrive.

The DEVICES are great. The supplemental software is terrible. No one should have to suffer the use of inadequate software to get access to the full featureset of a device that cost more than than my first car. Note that the Garmin Explore and Garmin Connect apps ARE intuitive-- probably because they have to conform with the Apple and Android UI policies to be represented on their respective stores.

dpawlyk said:

This means that, if BaseCamp isn't suitable for your needs, you will have to use some other software.

You misspelled "competitor's product." Garmin's own sites describe Basecamp as the current preferred software for use with their products. So... you know, maybe a third party shouldn't have to develop a 62-page how-to guide to making their software work for a billion dollar international company. Garmin has far more resources than most software developers and had an entire TWO DECADES with which to make this usable. 

I believe I already provided an explanation of reflected value and why it is important.

dpawlyk said:

No one cares.

And yet you horked your electronic kudzu into the interwebs to demonstrate how very MUCH you obviously don't care. I bet you could go on for HOURS about how little you care.

dpawlyk said:

SUSSAMB doesn't work for Garmin

Please link to the part of my post where I suggested he did. He, like you, leapt up to defend Garmin's inadequacy. I see this a lot in Amazon reviews. Whenever someone's favorite personal electronic device has a flaw pointed out, they must leap forward with shield upthrust in its defense. As I stated, this does nothing but interfere with the ability of users who encounter problems to generate and deliver honest feedback. 

Reputable companies seek such feedback. Disreputable ones hide from it. Try saying anything negative about Apple products in any review, anywhere. And Apple has gotten less innovative with each iteration of their devices, mostly changing the sizes and a few minor things here and there. Perhaps if they didn't delete unfavorable reviews and comments from their forums and sites, they might be able to recapture some of the customer goodwill they've squandered.

I neither sought SUSSAMB's response nor encouraged it. I did not seek him out and then disregard his opinion. I simply stated my own opinion and defended my point of view when it was challenged. In at least two cases where someone had problems with how atrocious Basecamp is, he jumped in to defend it. What Basecamp needs is an honest appraisal of its worth as a software, not rabid defenders excusing it for its flaws. 

I even pointed out that my first attempt to use this monstrosity was around the same time it was still in development and it sucked then. 

Basecamp is listed on the Garmin website and in accompanying literature as companion software for at least fifteen of their products. It is also the very FIRST link when web  searching "Map software for Garmin products" and is described on Garmin's own website (copyright 2022) as the "current desktop software for interaction with non-legacy handhelds", which leads one to the conclusion that it is Garmin's preferred and recommended supporting application for the products they sell.

As a result, users who buy those products are going to expect a modern, useable interface with some form of intuitive layout to match the level of software they have been using for the last decade. In this expectation, Basecamp has been a failure for a considerable amount of time, and the links I've previously posted display this. 

Further, Garmin discontinued development of Basecamp without providing a suitable replacement. So Basecamp is still the Garmin-supplied, Garmin-recommended, Garmin-approved mapping software for use with their products.

In short: my point was absolutely valid. You simply failed to understand because you don't consider it relevant, which is fine, but I have no interest in what you consider important.

dpawlyk said:

Garmin employees rarely and unreliably read or post here.

I have personally seen them here, so this point of yours is invalid. Regardless, this is a forum developed by and maintained by Garmin. As I stated, reputable companies seek out feedback from customers. They might not reply often, but you can bet your last Mountain Dew they're monitoring it. Why spend $50,000 running a user feedback survey or $120,000 on a focus group when they have a forum available to get the same information for free? 

dpawlyk said:

So, your ranting about deficiencies in BaseCamp here is pointless

Your opinion of my opinion has been entered into the record. Let the record also show that your opinion of my opinion is valueless to me. I wasn't speaking to you.

Good day. 

As this user clearly doesn't want help I'm closing comments. He's had advice from 2 experienced Garmin users but has his own views that he is unlikely to change.