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Anyone else have floor climb floor count stop in climbs over 80 floors?

Former Member over 7 years ago

Been wearing Vivoactive3 for approx 5 weeks, original for 3 and replacement for 2 - both have the same critical (to me) issue related to floor count stopping during stair intensive workouts. Approx every 3rd day, I have a workout that consists of me doing two sets of 40 reps up and down a long straight 36 step staircase at my gym. Garmin counts each as 2 floors, so this 'should' show as 80 floors for each of two sets. I started out doing 4 sets of 20, but switched to 2 sets of 40 a couple weeks ago at the suggestion of Garmin support. Bottom line is that on every single such workout (perhaps 10-12), my VA3 has had the floor count stop. A few times it stopped about 1/3 the way through and never returned. More commonly it stops, and then returns counting at some later point. The highest the floor count has ever reached prior to stopping is 68 floors (on again what is a first set of 80). Usually on the 2nd set, if it does resume it usually only gives me 20 or so more floor before stopping again.

I might note that I also have some occasional minor issues with floor counts, of the types appearing in numerous other posts. Things like at home sometimes going up my stair triggers a floor count and sometimes not. But those issues don't really bother me. It is my workout data being so incorrect that really disappoints. A few more details...

I do walk up the stairs every other step, at a steady moderate pace pushing off my heals. I am not 'running' up the stair. My best guess is that this issue relates to my sweat level. Counting some weight activities or indoor walking I do between and after stair sets - I am in the gym for 2 hours. My suspicion is as my sweat level builds up, it affects the small barometer related holes on the back of the watch. I have tried taking the watch off and wiping down my arm and watch say every 20 sets of stairs - but this has maybe only helped moderately and is not practical. Garmin can't really expect us to not work hard enough to sweat, right? I don't think it should matter, but I do use the Floor Climb workout setting for this activity.

I do wonder if I would experience this same issue with other Garmin products, or even with other brands. Looking at some alternative Garmin fitness trackers in a store today, my best guess if the barometer holes on the Fenix seem to be on the side of the watch, whereas on the VA3 they are on the back directly against your wrist skin. The Vivosport (something I also considered) also has the barometer holes on the back. Anyone with a Fenix ever due an extensive set of stair reps such as this without a problem? I might consider a Fenix then, though I do like the smaller size and weight of the VA3.

male
60 years old

Rich N

0 bigdwazda over 7 years ago

Indoor elevation is tricky and will never work perfectly. Every device I have owned has issues as indoor pressure doesn't change as much as outdoors.

I have 2 flights of stairs in my house and it never works correctly.

I hate to say it but it will never work accurately unless you find some outdoor stairs.

0 Former Member over 7 years ago

Appreciate the added feedback. However, I don't think this case is really an indoor/outdoor issue as I consistently have no problem for say the first 20 reps up and down the gym stairs (Garmin 40 floors). It is only later in the workout that the issue arises, which is why I suspect the issue is sweat related. You may have just motivated me to find a good set out outdoor stairs to play around on though. There is a high school nearby with the most impressive stadium in the state, perhaps I might have access there during off school hours?

0 AllanOlesen67 over 7 years ago

If you suspect that your sweat is affecting the altitude measurement, the natural next step would be to look at your altitude measurements during the activity. Have you done that?

0 Former Member over 7 years ago

I highly doubt there is a difference between indoor and outdoor air-pressure vs. the altimeter/barometer in your device. Worst-case the building is somewhat pressurized from the heating/cooling system, but overall your sensor is simply measuring the weight of the air in the column you are within. Same delta inside or out. The weight of the air delta will be so close between the two as it may be almost impossible to measure the difference.

My suspicions are how the algorithm is working for finding absolute elevation as a combination of the barometer and perhaps the GPS in your phone (or the one in the VA3 ?). If at some point in your workout (when you hit the top floor and suddenly get a GPS lock?) the altitude gets a "fix" and confuses the elevation gain or loss during your total workout time. Take a look at the elevation chart data during the workout and see if anything strange shows up.

As an experiment, I would try turning off your phone (to absolutely prevent communications with it) and making sure the workout doesn't use the GPS and try your workout again and see if it differs. You want your workout to rely on the altimeter only. If it starts working, then you can blame poor software in absolute altitude acquisition and then perhaps get Garmin's attention.

0 Former Member over 7 years ago

Oh, and skipping steps shouldn't matter. I get my floors count walking up and down hills as I live in a hilly area. Steps are not required for the measurement apart from some sort of qualifier like "Is Actively stepping + Altitude Changed + Time Limit for altitude change"

0 R_Tellis over 7 years ago

Indoor elevation is tricky and will never work perfectly. Every device I have owned has issues as indoor pressure doesn't change as much as outdoors.

I have 2 flights of stairs in my house and it never works correctly.

I hate to say it but it will never work accurately unless you find some outdoor stairs.

When I first got my VA3 I was rarely getting floors counted at home and I figured it was because they are right at the limit of being 10' change of elevation, but then I started to experiment.

Knowing that Garmin devices don't start counting steps until you go more than 10 steps and that it requires arm movement to count floors so that escalator rides don't get counted I hypothesized that it might take both those factors into account when counting floors so I tried a few things.

Where I park is less than 10 steps from my front door and if I go straight up to the 2nd floor I rarely get a floor counted, but if I continue straight up to the 3rd floor I'll get one counted. If I walk around the back of my truck before going in the house and straight up to the 2nd floor most of the time that will get counted, and continuing up to the 3rd floor will give me two flights.

Where I sit in my living room is less than 10 steps from the stairs to my room on the 3rd floor and if I go straight from my chair up to my room I seldom get a floor counted, but if I take a few steps the other direction before going up the stairs most of the time I do.

Obviously anecdotal, but pretty consistent.

0 Former Member over 7 years ago

Yes R_Tellis, you appear to be correct that the trackers have to be actively counting steps in order to register floor counts. If you watch the step counter when you first start moving, it will not vary until you have something like 10 steps in, then add them all at once and continue. So it appears that the ~10 steps must be taken before it will also track floors, and steps must continue through the elevation changes for it to register.

Makes perfect sense. I have never had a problem with hopping in the car and driving over the hills being registered, only when I am actively taking steps.

0 Former Member over 7 years ago

If you suspect that your sweat is affecting the altitude measurement, the natural next step would be to look at your altitude measurements during the activity. Have you done that?

To be honest and direct, no I have not look at altitude measurements during the activity. I would have to play around a bit to find an easy way to view this, and not fully sure what to be looking for. Would the concern be if the altitude was changing but floor count was not?

I did/can go back with the Garmin Connect app, pull up Floor Climb for any given day, and look at the 'Ascent' graph. Hard to summarize here, and there is also the issue of keeping track of newer workouts that match my replacement watch vs older with original watch (though neither was able to hold a floor count past say 60 floors). But in general the Ascent graphs match up with looking as you would expect when the floor count was working, but otherwise looking fairly flat when it was not.

0 AllanOlesen67 over 7 years ago

Well, if at first the altitude is changing by x meter every time you take a stair and the watch counts a floor, and later the altitude is still changing by x meter every time you take a stair, but the watch has stopped counting floors, then it would be a sign that the altitude measurement is not the culprit. However, if you can see that the altitude stops changing by x meter every time you take a stair without the watch counting a floor, then the altitude measurement is probably the problem.

Doesn't you watch have the ability to configure custom data screens for an activity, where you can add other data fields, such as elevation?

0 Former Member over 7 years ago

Original post update:

I am now (by extensive trial and error) able to confirm the floor count stop at some point is due to interference from sweat. I was interested in watching the elevation data more carefully at times this happened, but ran into the issue of not being able to select elevation (or equivalent) in the floor climb exercise settings. I did add a data field to give this info, and changed my settings to include this - but early in the workout the data field stopped due to my not paying for and entering a purchase code. Switching to another exercise setting mid workout was just too much of a nuisance as I need to focus on workout not just watch.

But the repeated pattern was the floor count to work perfectly for say the first 1/2 of my workout (80 climbs of a set of gym stairs, Garmin count each flight as 2 floors). But once I got sweaty enough the count would eventually stop. I tried taking the watch off and wiping down say every 20 sets, tried switching to a different band with more holes to allow better air circulation, etc. These all 'helped', but never sufficiently fixed the problem. Near the end of the workout I would need to wipe down the watch even after just another 5 or 6 reps, which then would ruin keeping my heart rate in the zone I want.

I do realize that few climb staircases to this level commonly, but I am shocked that this issue of sweat blocking the ability to count floors has not come up more often. I do wonder if the exact placement of the barometer/altimeter holes on other Garmin products (for example Fenix 5) might be slightly different enough to prevent this issue. I'll likely need to post on a more specific forum to look into that issue.